THE NEW P15 IS OFFICIAL.....

Why do you participate in this thread? Your opinion is worthless, our opinion is worthless, the entire discussion is worthless. The P15 seems to be sold out, so there can't be any further potential buyers. Let's close the thread.

 

Now youre quoting the gumpert, thats like the current appolo is a stunt, not really useable or road homoglated car, certainly nowhere near the USA. Your raising these cars is like a kid quoting road and track figures as to what is the best car. Want to go fast just mosey down to nelson racing engines and have them put a 1700hp TT sbc into your vette, so what, we know that wouldnt be a well or fully developed car. Frankly i wouldnt take any of the above cars to the track(except gumoert), well the gumpert went well on track, but then there are better open cockpit single seaters if thats what you want which is what a gumpert was.
Youre defining cars on paper like a top trumps card game.

We come at this from different palces, You have a new NSX which to me looks like a car with back on its front and visa versa, car that answers questiosn no one was asking, a tech tour de force because they could, a car way way to heavy for anything serious, I dont get the point of the new NSX at all, but I bet it provides great road thrills, which is all its for.

To me the Senna is the spiritual sucessor of the original NSX and F1. BTW before Murray did the F1 he drove a NSX.

To think for the same money as the NSX you could have gotten a Gt3, for me its not even remotely a question or comparison. But then you dont place the premium on track prowess the way I do. We value different things in cars. This Maclren senna answers question people like me ask and hopefully sets a great alternative template for future fast cars.. Its styling may be challenging but its concept and spec make me forgive all. Weight and aero is what seperaptes the senna into a different category than even the 720. Frankly if the 720 comes out with 900 hp the senna is still my choice if its detuned to 700hp.

Agreed about Jim Gs car, i am a big fan of it and much less expensive than the Mclaren, plus you can actualy buy one and it will probably be below 2700lbs, it was going to e Na but now its 600hp turbo. Jim also gets his car into the USa under the small manufacturer less than 350 cars rule for replicas. If you look in the special cars section I posted when it came out that this is the spiritual sucessor to the F1 and the car Ferrari would be making if Enzo were still alive. Actualy the Zonda was the first sucessor to the F1 Jim Gs car the senna follow that.

Of these (zonda Jim G) the Senna is the only one really fully homoglated to prod car rules for road use in the USa, thats an amazing acomplishment at that weight and with that aero and speaks volumes about what is possible in production car for the future, ie light weight, great aero and lots of power. The performante comes close in some ways but it does not have the light weight which is a huge differentiator.

Spend a day really wringing out car on track, youll see how the weight works against it, from tires to brakes not to mention cornering speeds. Weight is one of the main reasons why the less powerful Gs vette is superior on track than the heavier and more powerful z06(once you do more than 4 or 5 laps) even if the z06 does not go into limp mode.

Yeah on road no one can tell the difference between a 2700lbs 800hp car and a 2800lbs one, but then on road you couldnt use either fully. On road the 4000lbs 11000hp car is porbablky "faster", but whats the point.

The point to me of fast car is being able to use it and its performance. Today that means both enjoyment at road attainable speeds, ie feedback, and then really using it out on the track, and enough people think the same to have led to an explosion of trackdays track clubs and new tracks. The flaw for me of many new "fast" cars is that they are too dull/isolated on road (besides accleration) and too heavy and too uselss on track. Other disagree, witness healthy new ferrari sales. So to me the senna is breath of fresh air,(as is the new alpine a110) and its styling while maybe weird could be seen as retro-futuristic/functional.


This article say things about the senna way better than me, and perhaps explains why i like it.

https://petrolicious.com/articles/does-the-mclaren-senna-mean-weve-reached-the-end-of-the-horsepower-wars

 

Ohhhhh my gosh...all of this my pecker is bigger than yours.

The car is

H
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r
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n
d
o
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s.

Don't care about the rest as no one here is a F1 driver so give it up on the pretend weekend trackers antics.

 

Honestly I don’t even read his posts past the first paragraph lol. I don’t have time to digest all of that. I’m here for fun not intellectual debate I get that enough in my work life. I just like talking about cars with all of you.

 

It's very simple (to me). A road car has to be somewhat pleasing to the eye. I can forgive some cars having a not-so-nice looking detail if overall the whole thing is pleasing. But ultimately sheer performance is quite pointless as few people can actually make use of it, so I'd rather have a better looking car that's ever so slightly slower than one which is ****ing ugly.

Prime example is the Zonda, to me it's my favourite car...In S guise it's remarkably clean; my favourite is Cinque spec as it's the right combination between aggression whilst retaining pleasing to the eye. After this, with certain special editions when they started sticking winglets and Le Mans inspired fins and secondary and tertiary wings they simply lost the plot. No thanks.

The Senna has gone overboard and it's an ugly car. Disgustingly so. They could've made a car of the same weight, even with a big wing and all, pleasing and monstrously fast. Leave ultimate performance to actual race cars.

 

Point taken.

But this is not just a road car or even billed as such, its an ultimate trackday special, like a viper ACR was, and lots of us primarily go to the track these days.

The more pleasing astheticaly road car then is the 720 which functionaly as a road car is already faster than is realisticaly useable. In fact having seat time in on road and track 570 i can say its more powerful than useable once you turn off the nannies which are really dialing back the power, and that applies to track where a 570 will spin its rear tires at 120 mph on a straight.

So if youre going to be putting a good percentage of that 800hp down you need downforce, lots of it. If you want to be faster through corners and crucialy consistently fast lap after lap, light weight is the crtical factor. Excess Hp to me thats just bragging rights. I dotn think this car is going to be faster on most tracks at 800hp than 700hp.

To me this is car you can drive to the track and run really hard and fast all day on track, but in the tradeof between road/asthetics and track its optimized for track, as opposed tot he 720 which is optimized for road. The difference between a 991 porche and a GT3 Rs, but taken to the nth degree as the ACR did.

What makes it seminal in my book is the focus on loosing weight, which is soemhting that seems to have been forgotten in the last few decades as motors could provide so much Hp that the paper numbers meant you dont have to care about weight for those(the majority) who bought paper number specs.

Probably Maclren could have made a nicer looking car by compromising track performance, but this car is purity of purpose (in road legal package) and I applaud that.

This car is the classic light weight great aero solution. I dont think its meant to be an astheticaly apealing road car.

now could they have acheved the same results with good asthtics? Personaly think they were tied in to the 720 tub which dictates a lot. But yeah in the flesh the P1 is a looker and this one maybe not so. Bu then in pictures I never likes the Zonda whereas in the flesh its great, same for the koningsegg, whereas the Huraya looks good in pics to me, but detailing aside is not really great in the flesh.

Anyway theyre all sold, and one went at auction for 2.7 mill already.
If this car puts an end to an irrelevant hp war with ever more weight to contain the hp, and we get to a maturity where power to weight is the real measure of performance I am all for it. Bring on the really light 2600lbs version of the 570 with some great aero.

As for styling yes its awkward, but its also retro 50 sci fi-bladerunner awkward, no worse really than the later countaches.

 

I am hearing some may become available now....

 

No they are 'sold out'

I have a feeling there will be more than a 'few' available. Granted they will find some sucker to buy it when the dealers play the 'we pulled a favor for you' blah, blah, blah. They will dump them on someone. McLaren has a history of 'sold out' comments when not true.

And damn it, I still like the 720...so no bashing please.

 

Allocated but not officially sold until they are paid for. I am hearing from a potential owner (current P1 owner) that some people may not be taking delivery. If this happens it will certainly be a black eye for the company.

Kind of related but the 720 is said to have ~800Hp which is what they are claiming for the Senna I wonder if the Senna is also underrated or if in fact it is the same as the 720. If it is the same then I would imagine the 720LT will become much more desirable than the Senna although it may weigh ~200lbs more.

 

720'LT' will be the one--at least we know what it will look like to a certain degree. Forget this $1m mistake.

And I still like your red 720...see we can all get along

 

Totally agree with you.