The A380 is selling better now?? I think you could get one also at a fire sale price at this point after most of the airlines that own them figured out they don't need that much lift every day, so they end up with a huge amount of ground time.
I just thought about this earlier this morning...is that a possibility or would the govt spec them in such a way requiring a new build? The reason I ask is I think the current 747s have special wiring in them to resist EMP and the fuselage outerskin/windows may not be regular 747 materials either. Not sure if they would just use a pre-made commercial 748 sitting around.
the proposed purchase of the presidential whirlys was in part put off that the whirly of choice was not made in the USA... the purchase of any replacement aircraft not made in the USA is going to be very politically incorrect and thus not going to ever happen...
any presidential aircraft most likely will be special spec, the current ones only resemble a commercially available 747 in profile only...
There are 747 8I's sitting around?? I know a few delays on 747 8F's deliveries sitting around but no pax versions.
It's certainly a good symbol for that, though I think it's more about the image projected, especially overseas, by arriving in the biggest (made in USA) plane available. I'm dating myself with this one. Many years ago, when I was a small child, my mom drove my sister and me to the airport in Massena, NY to watch President Eisenhower arrive in the Constellation "Columbine" to attend the opening ceremonies for the St. Lawrence Seaway. It made quite an impression on me, though we were so far away that we could just make out Ike's bald head as he descended the stairs.
It's sad eh? I sometimes wonder, in short, if the size of the plane these days is more akin to ****** measuring contest. Case in point with heads of state: - USA: 747-200 series - Japan: 747-400 series (2) - Saudi Arabia: 747-300, 747-400, 747-SP (2), MD-11 (1 I believe + 1 MD-11F to carry all the **** they buy), and they grounded their 757-200 flying hospitals. - Russia: IL-96 (largest Russian passenger jet built) - United Kingdom: AFAIK, they fly commercial (Queen flies a BAe-146-100 locally) - South Korea: 747-400 (also possibly ordering a 747-8i) - France: used A330-200 - Germany has a ****load of planes starting with an A340 and going smaller from there... Not a complete list, but other countries often will commandeer their flag carriers aircraft.
The government would take a completed assembled plane, then fly it from Boeing to another provider(s) to outfit the aircraft, which would likely take a minimum of 2 years (or longer). No special builds, too expensive - anything special is outfitted after the initial aircraft is built.
A380s, no fire sale prices. The aircraft is technically sold out for the next couple of years. Boeing however has readily admitted they may build white tails just to keep the line going. Likely, and my speculation, for when the freighter market rebounds (in the ****ter now). Even NCA is parking new -8Fs in the desert for a later activation. As a passenger aircraft, the -8i is all but finished. Outside of Lufthansa, selling 5 to Air China and 5 to Korean isn't going to save this line. But it does make a nice VIP aircraft though (~ 20 being ordered thus far). Don't blame me, blame the 777 - it killed the 747. I'm no A380 fan, but fact is the aircraft for most (actually all as I haven't heard otherwise) of the airlines is flying full. It's a PR tool, passengers apparently will route themselves to be on an A380. Even Emirates which is the largest A380 customer at this point. It is a good aircraft when you fly into slot constrained airports (e.g. Heathrow) and do a helluva business on those routes.
may be a stuipid question - why not a C5 galaxy? - Its big - could put a small office building in there etc... looks impressive as hell..
I'd be more impressed if the president traveled in a Raptor. Not a special two-seater version, but rather he knows how to operate one and use its weaponry.
There are a couple NCA -8F's sitting in the desert. There are also 4 completed airframes (minus engines) sitting on the ramp at the Boeing plant (one hidden behind NCA). Three are white-tails. Image Unavailable, Please Login
why stop at a 4 engine plane?? Go all out and get a AN-225. Take the helicopter and limos along with ya. Take the whole posse and all their friends. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm not sure the President of the United States would choose a Soviet-designed plane from the end of the Cold War. Perhaps that's one for Putin. I've always thought the 747 had a very dignified appearance, particularly in the national colours. I'm fairly certain (just based on gut feeling, no experience) they're going to stick with that. All the best, Andrew.
He does take the limo with him... and doesn't fly in a Ruskie plane. Besides, if you're just looking for engine count, it would have to be a B-52 (8 engines). Or the untoppable engine count, restore and outfit a B-36 (10 engines).
The tail numbers quoted for the AF1 707s and 747 is the short form. Full form is 62-6000, 72-7000, 82-8000, 82-9000. The Air Force had wanted to replace the 707s for a while but the White House was afraid to put the funding request through Congress as long as Senator Proxmire was still in office. As soon as he retired the request went through. The primary 707 for Reagan was 72-7000. It really was cramped inside for who was on board. The presidents room did not have a bed but a divan where the back cushions could be taken off and used for sleeping. The adjoining First Lady's room did not even have that. Both of them shared a very small lavatory. The inner circle of senior staff shared a small room - too small for a real conference table arrangement. From there it was a descending order of White House staffers, invited guests, Secret Service and then the press shared the area with the Air Force security. This security detail was for the aircraft while the Secret Service was for the "man". From Day 1 "they" wanted the 747 although it had to look like a competition. Story goes that the DC-10 originally won so they kept changing the criteria until the 747 did. Even at that the 747 was a -200 while the -300 was already in production. According to the original plan Reagan would get to fly on the new 747 before he left office. Boeing Wichita was so late in performing their outfitting with the interior and all the other mods that Bush was in office. It has been a while but the delay could have been near 2 years late. Earlier here someone went through some of the VIP/head of state aircraft. Saudi Royal Flight's 757s is far more than just a medical aircraft. Yes, it does have an operating theater on board but it also has full VIP accommodations. Brunei has a 747-400 with a -8 on order. Go through the Middle East and most of the Arabian Gulf has at least one of them on order too. Prince al Walid has a -400 which is not part of Royal Flight. In the US Las Vegas Sands and Frye's Electronics each have a VIP 747SP. Jeff
What I dont understand is why get a new aircraft at all. the current 747's must be lowest hours 747's around. Yes the 200 requires a flight engineer and burns abit more fuel, but for apresidential aircraft this can hardley be an issue. Maybe they just cant get steam guages and other parts for the 300 anymore. BTW what happened to the airborne command post 747's that always used to be circling around, have they been put out to pasture. The ultimate waste must be the two 400's modified to carry lasers, how many times have those flown. What did Nasa do with its shuttle 747's.
I agree, the current AF1 has low time, and if they can keep B-52s still flying same here. Cockpit can be upgraded to a two man glass cockpit (UAE had Lufthansa Teknik do it on a new build 747SP in 1989). The Airborne Command 747s are still active. The -400 ABL has had too much modification to make it cost effective to convert. And the Shuttle 747s are being scrapped (those were former American Airlines commercial planes that NASA acquired second hand).
...and as an update regarding the Shuttle Carrier 747s, NASA announced today that they plan to use those aircraft as parts bins to maintain the NASA SOFIA 747SP.
Really? I thought they only agreed 1 of them to end up like that with the other going to Houston at JSC for display purposes. I recently saw N911NA in Palmdale, CA back in early June. 905 was off somewhere else...already delivered all the shuttles by then. Edit: I guess technically it will still be used as parts and not kept in flying condition as it will be static display anyway in Houston.
Through Reagan the 27000 averaged under 300 hours per year. The majority of the annual hour accumulation was for training flights. The practice was that if there was not a scheduled flight within 2 weeks they went on a flight to practice touch and goes and other activities. Would not expect much different today except that since there are 2 identical 747s they likely do some split between the two for official missions.
Or growth of technology, growth of the job ,.......... That's a good part of it. We are #1 and should show it. Agree that the 747 has a great appearance and now the 747-8 has the best, even the engines although the 777 is almost equal. AF1 did 10 touch and go's here 1 week ago alternating with a C-130 at the same time. Other days its a C5 and once in a while a tanker and a C17. The job of President is demanding and you want the guy in his best shape possible to carry out his duties. Some historians speculate that we got shafted at Yalta because FDR was exhausted. Travel sucks for the most part so anything that can improve the top exec's performance is required. Add in all the new com gear and the new threats and there you have the need for space and reliability. Just because we have had a generation of tools in office does not mean we should think it will always be that way. The office of President used to be a big deal and hopefully will be again. This is what LBJ was flying in 1965, my father took the pic, I cropped myself being held and my brothers out of the pic. We have a super shot of LBJ next to us, I had met him the year earlier in the WH. No memory of it, but nice to have the pics. Image Unavailable, Please Login
