The Number Game | FerrariChat

The Number Game

Discussion in '348/355' started by Roth, Apr 3, 2017.

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  1. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    A familiar story we know too well and never get old. We hear it during Sunday prayer. Across the table at supper time. Even in the bedrooms across America whisperef between couples. The story gets more air time than fake news. It makes the Trumpd Russian affair looks like a brief one night stand but you never guess what I'm getting at? No, I am not talking about the latest Linhsey Lonehand gossip or who does who in Hollywood. Unlike these stories, what I am talking about really belongs in the front cover of the national tabloid magazine.

    Us car guys are conditioned to obey these two sets of number. The engine geeks have us convinced the numbers are the only things that matter. Horse power this, torque that. The numbers get to ride shotgun in every car related conversations. Granted they are important but they're not the only numbers that matter. Mass, although misunderstood and gets thrown in the trunk on every ride, I will argue, deserves a seat in the front alongside torque and horse power because true performance characteristics can't be measured when a car standing still. It is when the car is moving. The fact is, unlike horse power and torque, mass is not constant. A car mass increases exponentially higher as speed increases. an object of a mass at a stand still only requires a force to move it. But if the object accelerates faster and faster, it's mass also increases on a squared factor. Let see how the numbers add up.


    Let's make up a hypothetical scenario excluding air friction. Suppose we drop a 3350 object from a high rise building at sea level. (Force of gravity decrease at higher elevation). The object accelerates down at the force of gravity which is 9.8 meter per second square. Now let say it a take 5 second for the object to hit ground. Let's do the math. So what we got below is a 3350 pounds object accelerating at 9.8 meter per second square. After five second, at impact, the object has a force equals to 821,000 pounds. As we can see, the object mass increases as it accelerates faster but the engine max power output remains the same. The point here mass is an equalizing factor assessing a car performance. So the next time some bloke tells you his car has 500hp and 500torque and the car weights 5000 pounds, you tell him, "you're stupid. I'll see you on he track biotch". Ow that's numbers you can brag about :)

    F=Ma
    F=Ma
    F= 3350lb(9.8)/s^2
    F= 3350lb(9.8)5^2
    F= 3350lb(9.8)25
    F= 3350lb(245)
    F= 820750lb
     
  2. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    Sorry, before someone says, "why is this post here in the 348/355 forum"? The 355's doesn't have jaw dropping horse power and torque but it's less than 3000 pounds. In addition it's architect offers the best platform for speed and co trol Thanks for understanding :)
     
  3. jhott66

    jhott66 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2008
    22
    Pittsburgh
    where to begin?
    Mass is constant, you are wrong. The "force" acting on that mass is variable depending on the acceleration.


    Oh boy. This is all incorrect. Every part of it.

    The "force of gravity" is dependent on the acceleration of gravity towards the earth: 9.8m/s^2. In your little example, you conflate force and mass. 3350 lbs is in fact a unit of force. You can't do what you did there, it's wrong.

    If falling from a building what kills you is the energy at time of impact. energy = 1/2*mass*Velocity^2

    Check this out:
    Energy of falling object

    when talking cars we typically talk in "g force".
    This is simply a multiplier on the acceleration of gravity as calculated from the change in displacement (velocity) of a known mass inside an measuring device.

    Here's a decent explanation for somebody who does not have 4 year of Calculus in their background.
     
  4. MicroFirm

    MicroFirm Karting

    Dec 6, 2010
    231
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Frank
    It is truly shocking to see how some people can be so misinformed, it's sad to say that this is just one more piece of evidence that we are well on our way to idiocracy.

    There is all kinds of crap on the internet, and some people believe the earth is six thousand years old, and you can not convince them otherwise, etc. etc.

    As a guy named Einstein pointed out a long time ago, the only time the mass of an object could increase is if you are approaching the speed of light.

    QED
     
  5. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    Creative writing and pseudoscience, they sort of go hand in hand. ;)
     
  6. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2014
    2,027
    NE FL
    Full Name:
    Ken
    A street GTB weighs a bit over 3200# without a driver

    Sent from my LGLS990 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    LoL you did two years of calculus in 4 years, congratulation. If so, logic tells me you had at least a few courses of physics so therefore you are aware of the special theory of relativity. Bluntly, mass is NOT constant but that's beside my point. Excuse my sarcasm, you guys remind me of the wilder beats waiting to cross the river. As soon as one jumps in, the rest of the herd follows unaware of the crocodiles lurking below. LoL


    Mass is the same whether it's on earth or the moon but mass is made up of matter and matter has weight determined by gravity. On earth, at sea level it is 9.8m/s^2. A mass of 3350 pounds is made up of matter weighting 3350 pounds. If we want to accelerate a mass made up of matter weighting 3350 pounds at 9.8m/s^2, a force equal or greater is required. Hence, the equation F=ma.

    The number "3350" pounds is not random. It is the round about weight of the Ferrari 430. I wanted to demonstrate the significant of the increase in weight vs constant engine power output as the car accelerates for five second at 9.8m/s^2. You mistaken the word "impact" to mean energy and you ran off with it. I assume you had calculus but many many years ago otherwise if you read between the lines, you would know.

    LoL, sorry guys I can't help laughing :)
     
  8. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    My second post would have been the 355's in the same scenario and compare the two numbers but Dr. jhottt666 went off on a tangent and we're not talking about trigonometry :)
     
  9. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    433
    Pepsi Generation
    Why thank you for the compliment. To get good grades, I learned early on to mesmerize the reader not with content but with words for I hate research paper. I spend most of my time in school chasing tails and I don't mean tuna. :)
     
  10. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 18, 2008
    6,041
    Indio Ca/ Alberta
    Full Name:
    Grant
    Not on the moon!!
     

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