The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Sorry, I thought this was an open, public forum.

Requisite smiley -

 

From another time, another place...

"I'm sorry you were unable to find my car. (It was displayed between the Ferrari and Rolex tents on sat. at Luguna, parked next to 0856 on the lawn at Quail on Tuesday, and in the pits at Luguna on Mon. and Wed.

Quite a number did manage to inspect it including Dick Merritt, Marcel Massini, and most interestingly for me Wayne Spardling who up until last Tuesday I'd never met or talked to.

Wayne as you know was there when 0846 crashed at the Targa in 67. He was also there on that cold and rainy night in December 67 when 0846 was converted as per the Technical Build Sheets to accept a 237 engine. He was also there when 0846 tested in early Jan. at Daytona and later when it took the Checkered Flag with it's sisters as well as when 0846 raced through the world in 66 and 67 as a member of it's crew.

He remembered the Targa crash quite well. He told me and many others who were standing around my car at Quail that not only had the chassis of 0846 been damaged as I have described it in the 104+ pages I sent you but that HE HAD PERSONALLY REPAIRED THAT DAMAGE WITH BRAZING AND THAT THAT REPAIR AND MANY OTHER DETAILS OF 0846'S CHASSIS WERE KNOWN AND PERSONALLY DONE BY HIM. HE INSPECTED THE TUBE OF MY CHASSIS THAT HAD BEEN DAMAGED AND REPAIRED, RAN HIS FINGER ALONG THE BOWED, BRAISED AND REPAIRED TUBE AND STATED THAT HE HAD MADE THAT REPAIR AND FROM HIS PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE MY CHASSIS EXCEPT OF COURSE FOR THE SECTION THAT BURNED AT LE MANS IS 67 WAS 0846.

Later in the day Dick Merritt commented: "If Wayne says that's the chassis then that's the chassis."

Wayne also cleared up a few other mysteries. The 593 box in 0846 was used as the mule for the 603 box and 0846 WAS tested with this box in Jan. 67 at Daytona until the 603 was ready. He remembered that they received and installed the 603 type box before the race and that the 593 was prone to failure at the point of linkage/box juncture.
He also said a very interesting thing that I certainly never knew before. At certain tracks where there were very long laps they ran a 3 Liter engine in the P4. He pointed out that gas mileage was more important than power. An extra lap or two, enabled by better gas mileage on a very long track could mean minutes over the course of a race at Nuerburgring or Spa. He said that Forghieri developed and had cast a very
limited number of " blocks that could run either as 3 or 4 liter. Remember according to Ferrari the 246 (second alliteration of the F1 block) was "Derived" from the 237. I believe that explains the curved casting rib vs. straight casting rib and why I was able to correct my engine without sandwich plates. Wayne also remembered that at different races he used different oil radiators in the P4's and that the one in my car and the one in 0856, which at the time Wayne inspected both of them were side by side on the lawn at Quail, were both correct depending on the race.

As an aside he confirmed that the damage on 0856 caused when it backed into the wall and the repair to that sheet metal was exactly as he remembered it. 0856's sheet metal on the lawn at Quail is original and the hammer/repair marks are quite visible as well."

 

Hey Wax, thanks for the kind words. Didn't want you to think that I didn't see them. Working for a living is a female dog, and I have just been way too busy. I even had to cancel on going to Monterey this year. Just too much going on.

Thx, Dale

 

Re read very carefully. I was staged next to 0900, which is Green, at Goodwood. Jesse and I were invited back to David's shop in London, the one Macca described, where we again saw 0900; The Red car which at the time had been stamped by David 0003; and a P4 chassis with nose and center section that was hanging from the ceiling. (0900a) (Two cars and one chassis)

 

Lee, some day. Until then, we will always have, uh, well, Lubbock!

 

Pete, you're showing your age. Don't let it get to ya. At the end of the day, there will always be car guys. Besides, from what I have been told, most of the big Ferrari collectors are car guys. Collectors who have more money than god typically shy away from collecting big dollar cars because in their world cars aren't cool. Even worse, they have no where to put a car in their upper east side coop or their vacation home in West Palm.

Hang in there, bud.

 

I see absolutely no point in having a car of ANY kind, unless you are going to DRIVE it. Rich people who are just collectors and don't drive should simply hire a chauffer and buy a limo.

 

10/4 Good Buddy.
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Really?

Subject: FerrariChat - 0846 & Cavallino thread - post number 149
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:55:01 +0200
Thread-Topic: FerrariChat - 0846 & Cavallino thread - post number 149
Priority: Urgent
Importance: high
From: "Marshall, Joanne" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
CC: "FGT - Ufficio Legale" <[email protected]>,"Fasciolo, Sabina" <[email protected]>
Return-Path: <[email protected]>
OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2005 16:55:03.0170 (UTC)


Dear Mr Ausbrooks,

We are rather concerned at the number of claims currently being made regarding 0846 on FerrariChat.

We should appreciate your posting the following on your web site at your earliest convenience:


"Gentlemen,

There is no mention of chassis number 0846 on any official Ferrari web site, nor do we make any acknowledgement of any claims regarding the originality of this vehicle.

We confirm that, as far as our factory records are concerned, the chassis in question was totally written off in 1967 after the Le Mans incident.

Ferrari S.p.A."


Please confirm that this official Ferrari reply has been posted as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely,

Joanne Marshall


And in recent conversation, Angelo Amadesi (of Corsa Classiche, Ferrari S.p.A.):

“Quest’ uomo è un bugiardo e la sua bella automobile è falsa.”

Suona molto meglio in italiano, vero?

 

If that statement was true why is 0846 listed in Jims garage section of the owners.ferrari.com website, Ferrari verify the information before the add a car to it

 

Replica Paul
You should really get this multiple personality thing of yours looked into.
Joanne Marshall sent an email to Wayne. I answered it. Rob and Wayne invited her to post her email or anything else she wishes about 0846 on Ferrari Chat. In my email to her I pointed out that she was absolutely wrong about the following statement:
"There is no mention of chassis number 0846 on any official Ferrari web site, nor do we make any acknowledgement of any claims regarding the originality of this vehicle."
After receiving my email Ferrari S.p.A declined to post the above incorrect information.

Anyone who wishes can easily see for themselves that Joanne is wrong.
Pages 111- 112 speak for themselves, identify my 330 P4 by chassis 0846 five times and that I've owned it since 7 2000. Page 112 has photos of my car under restoration and includes a photo of one of the uprights that Angelo Amadesi of Corsa Classiche, Ferrari S.p.A. authorized to be cast for my car.

You were wrong about the gearbox in my car. You were wrong about the engine in my car.

Once again anyone can look at pages 111 and 112 and see that you are wrong again.

 

"Dear Mr Glickenhaus,

We would like to inform you that we have received the complete brochure of your car.

We would kindly ask you to provide us with some digital pictures of the car, if possible, so to forward them to the competent department for classical cars. Once these data have been entered, the car can be visualized in your ‘Ferrari Garage’.

We thank you for your patience and would like to underline that these are not standard procedures. Being yours a unique car, we need to work in a very scrupulous way.

We thank you very much for the kind cooperation and remain at your complete disposal for further information.

With kindest regards,

Ferrari Customer Care"

__

Whoomp chak a laka chack a laka chak a laka chak a

 

Jim
Not Replica Paul - not Piloti either - I wonder who?
Nathan

 

Doesn't matter who - they're still wrong.

 

Can't the mods see who the IP address belongs to?

if it doesnt show as one of the usual suspects they can PM it to me and I'll find out

 

Nathan
What's you're point? That some anonymous poster is defaming Joanne Marshall by implying that Joanne is STILL stating, after having been made aware of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, that there wasn't nor isn't any mention of my ownership of 0846 on a Ferrari web site?

The web pages shown on pages 111 and 112 of the 0846 papers:

http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf

have existed for years. They existed when Joanne wrote her email. They exist today. They exist because of actions taken by Ferrari S.p.A. that speak for themselves.

Do you think that after being directed to those web pages Joanne still feels that her statement is correct? The anonymous poster who has implied that she STILL does, knowing that I pointed her to those web pages and that since receiving notice of their existence she has NOT made that claim, is defaming her.

Nathan, the bottom line remains that the chassis in my car is not what David in writing
mistakenly stated it was but is more than likely 80+ % of the remains of chassis 0846 that was "written off" (Scrapped not vaporized) by Ferrari S.p.A. after the Le Mans fire of 1967.

Why do you think Ferrari S.p.A., in light of their stating:

"We would like to inform you that we have received the complete brochure of your car.

We would kindly ask you to provide us with some digital pictures of the car, if possible, so to forward them to the competent department for classical cars. Once these data have been entered, the car can be visualized in your ‘Ferrari Garage’.

We thank you for your patience and would like to underline that these are not standard procedures. Being yours a unique car, we need to work in a very scrupulous way."

put 330 P4 chassis 0846 into my garage on their web site stating that I've owned it since 7 2000, when I bought what turned out to be the remains of 0846's chassis instead of a chassis built to P4 chassis blueprints given to David by Enzo Ferrari?

 

Jim
What's your problem? The point is simple, and stated in my post - no more, no less, so stop making mountains out of molehills, and even more important - Stop trying to say I've said/implied something that I haven't.
Veritas is not me or Paul. OK?
Nathan

 

Jim / Nathan

if one of the Moderators can please pass me the IP address of who posted as Veritas (its either the mep Robert kilroy-silk or some backup software ) I'll find out who it was..........it'll give me something to do on Monday morning

whoever it was its fair to say it wasnt Nathan, and probably wasnt "replica" Paul, lets face it folks its easy to register another account and post rubbish

 

Nathan
Why would you even post that it wasn't you? No one said it was. What's your problem?

 

Nathan is a good guy even though he is sometimes weird. I think working with Brian Harvey at Grand Prix Models rubbed off on him

 

This says it all ...

When has the Ferrari company (or Alfa Romeo for that matter) ever been considered good at keeping records?

Pete
ps: Dr Who, I'm only 37 ... my point was cleaning and displaying cars does not make you are car guy.

 

217.250.172.74

No IP matches on Fchat

 

Dear Jim G,

I get the feeling there are a lot of emotions involved in people's posts regarding this car, which is not surprising considering that it is the most beautiful of the most beautiful cars produced to date.

You and the others posting here seem to be aware of all the details re this car, but have considered listing the items of evidence for and against your car having chassis 0846 in simple summary form, ie
For:
1) Ferrari SpA recognizes it as such
2) Ferrari chassis builder clearly states he remembers the chassis and says it is.
3) Chassis number plate present.

etc.

From what I've been reading your claim is undeniable. Maybe the evidence just needs to be listed clearly. If Ferrari accepts your car as being 0846, I think it laughable that anyone would deny it.

Jim Oddie

 

Er, no.

Repairer ... not builder.

Er, no ... now wouldn't that be simple .

Jim has already listed out his evidence ... and sent it to them.
Pete

 

hey dude, I own black 308 GTS #23723. It's not real either...;-)