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The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 1, 2003.

  1. stevetr

    stevetr Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2003
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    Stephen
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  3. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    Thanks Stu,
    I knew somebody on FChat would stick up for me :)
    Nathan
     
  4. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    After re-reading Jim's doc and all of the posts currently in this thread, some clarification is needed (for me). What side of the chassis did Wayne Sparling repair after the Targa crash, right side or left or both? Was the chassis repaired after the fire by Ferrari or later by someone else?
     
  5. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    One little point about what that term, "written-off" can mean or not mean....

    The US Army Air Force during WWII would note an airframe as "written-off" when it failed to return from a mission, was crashed or was otherwise damaged beyond repair or use.

    The US Navy did the exact same thing. Such aircraft had their serial numbers stricken from the inventory roles.

    Both branches of the US armed forces noted such "dead" aircraft as "written-off", however each has a very different definition of what that means.

    For the US Airforce (the USAAF morphed into the USAF shortly after the war), one an airfrace was written off, it was gone for good as far as they are concerned. If today (as has happened many times) somone finds a long lost crashed USAAF aircraft and they choose to recover it and restore it, it belongs to them. The USAF has no claim on it nor do they care because they view that airframe as written off and thus GONE.

    The US Navy is very different. If you locate a long lost crashed US Navy plane, you recover it and restore it and they find out, not only will they come and sieze the plane but they will charge you with theft of Govt. property and put you in jail. Even though that aircraft was written off and has sat in a jungle on the other side of the world for 60 years and the US Navy has made zero effort to keep track of it, recover it and probably never knew it existed.... their position is that it remains their property.


    So, what does "written off" mean? You tell me and we will both know...



    Terry
     
  6. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    The Alfa Canguro TZ styling excercise was written off and sat in the scrap heap for around 5 years before it was purchased for something like $50 in the early 70s. It is certainly possible that similar things happened with the remnants of Ferrari race cars.
     
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  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Page 60-62. The chassis tube damaged by Nino's 1967 Targa crash, which Nino discusses in his letter to me (Page 123-124), was repaired by Wayne, as Wayne confirmed to Gerald Roush of The FML. (Page 99-101) The left side top longest angled chassis tube.

    Nino hit the curb. The shock traveled across the transverse which is very strong and bent the longest angled tube that is attached to it and reaches forward to the rear cockpit bulkhead, in the middle of that tube, its weakest point.

    The right side angled tubes were damaged in the Le Mans fire. Their replacement is discussed in Paragraph 4 of page 79.
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    The car that recently took "Best In Show" at Villa d'Est.
     
  10. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    Jim,

    Thanks, I thought you had mentioned that the crash damage was transmitted to the left side previously in another thread, but I wasn't sure. I know there might be one way to prove the LeMans fire damage happened to this chassis, but that would entail cutting the chassis apart and checking the inside of the tubes for fire residue, really not a solution to try!
     
  11. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    David
    My guess is that all you would find is some old Pipe(r) tobacco :)
    Nathan
     
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  13. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
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    cool!

    :) i sold *23785* 308GTS last summer , "Marrone Dino" ... wierd color :)
     
  14. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
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    Jim
    Quote:
    3) Chassis number plate present.


    Er, no ... now wouldn't that be simple .

    __________________

    On page 24 of Jim's pdf document it says, "I had found a label on the firewall of my car "P3 0846."

    Does that label exist, or not?

    I guess I'm out of my depth here. Have fun debating.

    Jim Oddie
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Hi
    There was a label on the firewall that said: "P3 0846" and when I asked Piper about it that's when he said that Pininfarina had used that number for P5. It was a label not a chassis stamping.

    I'm off to Pebble with my Duesey J446. When I get back I'll be happy to answer any further questions you may have.

    Best
     
  16. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    So did you get a photo of this label? It could be quite important.
    Nathan
     
  17. Veritas

    Veritas Rookie

    Aug 14, 2005
    0
    Could you reply to Nathan’s question, please Jim. There are quite a few of us who would like to know your answer – and, more importantly, also to see a copy of such a photo, if one exists.

    Speaking of photos, I have recently spent a considerable time reading back through the older archived threads on the subject of 0846. Unfortunately, most of the photos seem to have since disappeared from several of the posts, particularly those made by ‘Napolis’, sadly. I understand this was due to the ‘crash’ of FerrariChat’s server, last December.

    The oldest thread that I could find, where there was a reference to 0846, was this one:
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/155943.html

    I understand, however, that you purchased the basis for this car, which you now call 0846, from David Piper in October 2000 – 2 years prior to making that post. Do you have any photos of that car, taken before or during the initial strip-down, which you could post, please? I, for one, would be very interested to see any shots of the rear of the car, with the rear bodywork raised, or removed, and the engine installed – as it was delivered to you. Thank you.
     
  18. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
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    You should find all the info you need here;

    http://www.glickenhaus.com/jim/project.pdf
     
  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Darn shame about the pics......both Mr. G's and Speedy's were wiped out!

    Hi, tonyh......g'mornin'!!!

    Buy low, sell high!

    Load your printer up and print that file, it makes good readin'!!!!
    Make sure you have plenty of RED!!!!
     
  20. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    677
    http://public.fotki.com/cafox513/ferrari/330412_p34/page4.html

    Lots of interesting photos there - including 'the green car' s/n 0900 and 'the red car' known as s/n 003 or 0846 when in Piper's ownership.

    Before the Great Fchat Crash I took the liberty of creating for myself a Word file incorporating all the best pictures and text copied from Jim's posts.................

    And I saw and photographed 'the red car' just before Piper sold it to Jim, at Goodwood in September 2000.


    Paul M
     
  21. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
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    Paul,
    your pics are very interesting. Have you posted them before?
    Tony
     
  22. Veritas

    Veritas Rookie

    Aug 14, 2005
    0
    Thank you, Tony, but I have also studied that document very closely. All the photos of the car, which are included in that document, appear to have been taken from October, 2002 onwards, when the restoration was well under way – 2 years after Jim purchased the car from David Piper.

    What I, and others, would like to see are:
    That is, photos taken between October 2000 and October 2002. I thought I had made that clear in my previous post.
     
  23. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
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    Sorry, my mistake.
     
  24. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    677
    Tony,

    Unfortunately the engine cover on 'the red car' wasn't opened while I was photographing it, so I only got pics and video of the outside and cockpit.

    Paul M
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Nathan

    Once again your logic escapes me:
    "It could be quite important."

    Why could this be important?

    As I've stated: "It was a label not a chassis stamping."


    It was a Dymo tape label in the same Dymo tape that was used to label the dashboard that was on the car when I bought it from David and yes I have a photo of it. I also have a full set of photo's that clearly document the chassis exactly as it was when I bought the car from David.

    The only thing important about this label is that it started me wondering why someone had affixed it to a panel that was on the car I bought.

    As an aside this is the last time that I will respond to anonymous posters. It will also be the last time I respond to anyone who does not fully answer a question I have posed to them.

    Best
     
  26. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    I wonder why that doesn't surprise me :)? It seemed important enough for YOU to mention it!
    Exactly!

    Nathan

    PS Congratulations on the Duesy prize.
     
  27. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Thanks!
     
  28. Veritas

    Veritas Rookie

    Aug 14, 2005
    0
    Paul.
    Thank you for posting that link, but I personally had also seen Charlie Fox’s photo gallery before. Those photos of ‘the red car’ which you refer to do not belong to him. They have been copied from Mark Hockings website: http://www.djmarkus.com/ferrari/330p4.htm (page titled ‘300’ P4).
    It would seem that these same photos have also been previously posted (by Jim) on FerrariChat in an earlier ‘0846’ thread. I found this post by ‘P4Replica’: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134403688&postcount=579 although, sadly, once again the actual photos, to which he refers, have disappeared.
    I assume, from that remark, Jim, that you are referring to myself? I thought I had made a simple and polite request to see some earlier photos of your car.
    Then, if you do, as you say, have such photos, Jim, perhaps you could explain your apparent reluctance to post some of them, in response to a polite and not unreasonable request – and why also these photos appear to be missing from your .pdf document.
    Thank you.
     

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