The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

I have more integrity than to post photographs that somebody has specifically asked me not to copy from their personal websites. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply ALLOW those people to post interesting photos themselves? No need to have a middleman if it is totally unnecessary.

 

Resurrect the thread on it's original topic! Ignore the squabbling! Comment on Napolis converting 0846 to an open-top instead!

Does it mean that 0846 will be even "more" original? Or does the car lose something the second "re-body" around?

BTW, sounds like a lot of hammering going on in Napolis' garage this winter. . . .

 

Hi, teterman - this thread was created specifically for squabbling with evil naysayers, as they kept destroying one good discussion after another.

But, I like the way you think & man, that'd be a great gig in that garage...

 

Yeah, you wonder how "old world" the tools must be, I can see the wooden body bucks, the set of ancient hammers hanging on the wall, and a group of elderly craftmen and mechanics tinkering away on various bits of aluminum, and Napolis dropping in to fire up the motor every once in a while

 

Hi just got back from doing exactly that. 0854 will definitely be more original as we'll be fitting her original coupe tail and doors and saving her original paint that she raced with at Brands Hatch in 1967.

As for 0846 we'll be using 0858's original P4 spyder tail which is more original than the NOS Allegetti coupe tail she now wears for sure and she should be a spyder as 0854 should be a coupe. The gear box is more complicated as in the end she definitely raced with a P4 Gearbox rather than a P 3 Gearbox, (The one Replica Paul was wrong about) but the P3 gearbox that's now in her is original. There's no good answer to that one.

Comparing 0854 and 0846's chassis has been very interesting. There is NO question that the chassis in 0846 was not built to P4 Plans/Blueprints.
In addition we came across a very interesting vestigial weld on 0846 that match's exactly a small tube gusset on 0854. Note how the base of the original weld on 0846's chassis tube is still visible and matches the small tube gusset on 0854. It "Beggars Belief" that anyone building a replica chassis would leave or create the remnants of an earlier weld when a tube that was likely destroyed when 0846 flipped at the Targa in 66 was replaced with a piece of flat stock, not round tubing at a later time. If the chassis in my car was a replica chassis, which it's clearly not, the remnants of the earlier weld would not be visible nor in the exact P3 chassis spot as verified by 0854's P3 chassis.

It's very interesting to see how 0854's original door frames still line up exactly with 0854's door openings and hinges today proving that those too are original.

002C's valve train is also ready to go back together.

Best
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Hi Jim,

i have found some pics of your cars at the Targa Florio at the homepage of the austrian Ferrari club:

http://www.scuderia.at/gallery.php?gallery=Giro%20di%20Sicilia%20-%20Targa%20Florio%202005

 

Thanks. I was great to meet Michael at the event. He got some great photo's. I hope a bunch of you come down next year as it's the 100th and it's going to be really something.

Best

 

Here's another theory: years from now, somebody will get a small scrap of some car, rebuilt it into an "original", and postulate an unconfirmable theory as to how the "original" part made its way from that junkyard to restored rarity. (and all without a serial number or VIN tag)

[Post relocated to this thread. Arlie, stop trying to interject this discussion into other threads. -LWA]

 

Being in the holiday mood, I read Tse-tse fly's post since he is on my ignore list.

That was a mistake.

 

Thanks for reading, Judge. I forgot that certain subjects are still too "sensitive" to talk about ANYWHERE else.

 

It's baaaaaak.... The thread that never dies!

Hi Arlie, I was getting worried, you were starting to sound reasonable to me and I had begun agreeing with you. Thank you for resetting things

Regards,

Art S.

 

It's not that they are too sensitive. It just gets tiring when there is nothing new brought to the conversation.

 

No problem Art. My pleasure. When a picture of a bunch of repro body parts in a backyard in Holland can't even withstand a humerous cryptic reference to another dormant thread, perhaps the thanksgiving turkey isn't the only thing with a little too much "stuffing".

 

Arlie,

I think we all got the joke...and we all groaned simultainiously, at least add an interesting twist or something next time.

By the way, I'm not convinced that all of those bodys in the Heitbink photo are repros, especially the Daytona. Also, I once saw a much more interesting photo: Boano, PF Coupe, GTE, etc. remains stacked behind a shop that had used the good bits to make repro racers. Unfortunately I lost the picture.

Regards,

Art S.

 

NOTICE OF PROPOSED FERRARICHAT RULE MAKING AND ORDER
Adopted: July 15, 2005 Released: July 19, 2005
Comment Date: 60 days after publication in the Ferrarichat Register
Reply Comment Date: 75 days after publication in the Ferrarichat Register
By the Administrator: Notice of Proposed Rule making

1000. A: No P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast or person or
persons acting on the direction, or suggestion, or supervision, of any P4 Ferrari owner,
or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast, may try, attempt to try, or make or
make any attempt to try, to comprehend or understand, any or all, in whole
or in part, of the herein mentioned 0846 Ferrarichat debate, except as authorized by the Administrator or an agent appointed
by, or under the supervision of, the Administrator.

1000. B: If any P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast or group of
associated P4 Ferrari owners or P4 Ferrari operators,or P4 Ferrari enthusiasts becomes aware of,
or realizes, or detects, or discovers, or finds, that he, or she, or they,
are, or have been beginning to, or are about to understand the 0846 Ferrarichat debate, or any of its provisions, (he)
(she) (they) must immediately, within three (3) days of such discovery or
awareness, notify, in writing, the Administrator.

1000. C: Upon receipt of any such above notice of impending comprehension,
the Administrator shall promptly cause said 0846 Ferrarichat debate
to be rewritten in such a form and manner as to
completely and totally eliminate any further possibility of comprehension by
any P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast or person or persons
acting on the direction, or suggestion, or supervision, of any P4 Ferrari
owner or P4 Ferrari operator or P4 Ferrari enthusiast.

1000. D: The Administrator may, at his or her option, require any P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast, or person or persons acting on the
direction, or suggestion, or supervision, of any P4 Ferrari owner, or
P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast, who commit(s), or attempt(s) to commit, or exhibit(s)
any propensity to commit, the offense of understanding or comprehending the
0846 Ferrarichat debate, or any part
thereof, to attend courses of remedial instruction in said 0846 Ferrarichat debate, until such time as said P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast or
person or persons acting on the direction, or suggestion, or
supervision, of a P4 Ferrari owner, or P4 Ferrari operator, or P4 Ferrari enthusiast demonstrate
that they are no longer capable of exhibiting any comprehension or
understanding of anything.

 

Dear Horsefly: Did you write the build sheet request form for Ferrari?

 

Arlie,

You're way too into this. Make yourself useful; go rescue the remains of John Surtees 330.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4597473051

Regards,

Art S.

 

Did anybody manufacture an aftermarket front cap that will make a 4 headlight model less ugly?

 

I have to admit Arlie has a point. A lot of the debate is truly lost on me and I'm one of the administrators.

I think without a nice computerized 3D model of engine mounting points and welds on tubular frames I'll never quite grasp the arguments pro or con. I bet if you have the frame in front of you it is a whole lot easier to comprehend. And yes, I have read Jim's document about three times front to back.

Not that it really matters to me. What Jim does with his car is IMHO way cool and I applaud him for that.

 

Heck, put some scrap 360 units on there, you'll SEE THE LIGHT!!!!!!

 

Iz all about the GEOMETRY and TRIANGULATION........and it can STRESS you out if you let it!

It leads to cracks in your bodywork and cracks around your eyes when you SMILE!!!!!!

 

Arlie,

That car has HISTORY - it was given to Surtees by Mr. Ferrari as a gift after he won the championship in '64. Besides, have you ever seen a 4 headlight car in person? If you still don't like it, you can get a nose clip off of a 2 headlight (several of those conversions have been done over the years).

By the way, did you notice that it still had its chassis plate and the original drivetrain is still around (in other cars at the moment).

Actually the more I think about it, considering its history, Jim G. should get it.



Regards,

Art S.

 

Heck, I'd change a two-lamp to four-lamp. . .!! The fours are very unique, without being odd or overdone, TRES BELLA

 

This is a very long thread. i can't believe all of this over what appears to be the authenticity of a single car. Now I didn't read the whole thread or even a small portion of it except a few posts on the front page and a few on the last page. I think you guys are talking about the car that is .. or was recently on Ebay? I read about that and it is interesting, but worth almost 800 posts?

 

that's not the kind of car that goe son ebay! LOL