The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Serial number's plainly visible on that nickel.

 

Must be a fake. Nickel is spelled wrong

 

Now we have both God and the Pope in the thread. However, God is in favor and the Pope is opposed...

Good night all,

Art S.

PS. Erik, don't forget to make a new batch of popcornin the morning.

 

Arlie-

I don't go to wikipedia for my information on 0846.. that's been available to us (rossa members) well before it was publicly posted anywhere else and way before it popped up on that site. You simply didn't bother to read it (and I still doubt that you have).

I was hoping you'd bring up your favorite mythical beasts and try to draw a line to 0846.. it perfectly illustrates how ridiculous (flawed) your thinking process is. You've got complete faith in something you've never seen and complete contempt for Jim being able to afford a fleet of b****in' automobiles.

In other words, get over it.

 

Thanks. We've had a good winter. 002C's motor is done and will be on the dyno this week and then she'll go back together.

J6's motor is done and will be dyno'ed soon.

Our Studz is coming along nicely and will be done for driving this spring.

0846 will be ready for the 100th Targa Florio.

0854 will be ready for the summer and a nice surprise will be ready for August as well.

Best

 

and I think it says 1913 - which would make ia Series II PF Coupe - wrong thread, buddy .. .

 

... coming from your garage i can only dream what a "surprise" would entail ... ...like the ones you have arent cool enough !

 

It's a few minutes before 5 AM here, new batch is on for anyone who is interested...

 

How do you send beer through a modem?

 

I think the first person to figure it out would be a billionaire pretty quick...

 

What about SL 71-32?
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That puppy is running great. I put a lot of wonderful miles on her last year and she's waiting for the spring. We'll change her oil and she'll be out and about.

 

There is only one thing mainly that confuses me. I have been informed for ages now that Piper made 3 P4's (#0900, the only official one, #0900a and #0900b). I have always assumed that since Piper made 3 that #0900b must equate to #0003 (I guess #0900a could equal #0003 though).

Now a few posts ago it reads that Piper made 4 P4's, #0900, #0900a, #0900b and #0003 ... I'm confused.

Anyway we know that Piper wanted to install a P3 engine in one and as he states he asked for one to be made so this was possible. The company that made him these chassis' also made them originally (I believe) for Ferrari, thus it is entirely possible that not only did they have Piper's P4 drawings BUT also official Ferrari drawings for a P3 and ALSO the P3/4 modifications ... as they probably did the modifications to #0846 originally.

Thus Jim's car IS either #0846 OR a second P3/4 chassis made in 1974 that coincidentally has similar accident damage as the first (#0846) chassis.

As all other P3 and 412P chassis' are accounted for these are the only possibilities.

As Piper asked for 1 car that could take a P3 or P4 engine ... well he got what he asked for and has never looked hard enough to notice the relatively minor differences. Far enough I say as once panelled, it would be harder to noticed.

Pete

 

If it is a true fact that Ferrari has allowed this car to have a garage on the owners website, registered to the current owner, I would say case closed. The fact they have repeatedly attacked, sued and confiscated cars from around the world, from anyone who tried to pass off a replica as fake, pretty much answers to this cars authenticity. I wouldnt even need to look at the car to conclude that. In any court trial that involves a manufactured product, a top level official from the manufacturer always carries more weight to the opinion of authenticity of that product. By allowing this car on thier website, they have officially recognised this car as authentic.

Furthermore, the fact the chassis are made of steel, as are the number plates, we could equally question the authenticity of all the remaining Ferraris in the world, every single Ferrari ever made. At some point you just need to have faith.

 

Paul,

I suspect that its not that simple.


Jim,

Don't tell me you found a fifth P4

Is it a McLaran M6 by any chance?

Art S.

 

Its a Lola.. also couldn't resist a chance to look at Jim's badass lift system again.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=134610779&postcount=23

 

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Art

Paul is correct. It is that simple. See post 80. Note the procedure Ferrari followed on page 110.

Pete

The photos in post 979 prove that did not happen.

 

Eric & CMY,

I was not reffering to the T-70 but to the "nice surprise due in August".


Jim,

I hope you're right.

Regards,

Art S.

 

I know nothing...
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Jawohl, Herr Komandant!

 

Hmmm, sort of.

Racing cars go through many modifications and your suggested modification makes sense ... but it is unfortunately not impossible that this was some other repair, for some other reason. Unlikely yes ... actually I must say 'shoddy repair/modification work' by whom ever. If done properly you should hardly be able to notice (if at all) that something was cut off. I guess time is money

One thing that does amaze me about this very interesting quest for a chassis number for your #0846 is that the company that made Piper's (3 or 4?) chassis' still has not been asked, or publically atleast. Has this company folded?

To me it seems the obvious missing piece in the jigsaw ... should even satisfy Arlie . Now I am not saying we accuse this company of any wrong doings ... ... Surely you could fit this little excursion in your next trip to the home land? .

Anyway the tail looks really good. I wasn't happy that you were changing it back to spider form (debately not as good looking) but the rear view is looking great, and better than I expected.

Pete

 

Thanks. Think on this. The reason you have to make this mod. is to fit a P4 tail to a P3 chassis that is fitted with a P4 engine, wheelbase shortened to 2400mm, rear wheel centered in the rear wheel well and:
A BOTTOM EDGE OF THE P4 TAIL THAT LINES UP WITH DOOR SHUT LINE AS IT DID IN ONE UNIQUE CAR P3/P4 0846, NOT AS IT STEPS UP ON THE REAL P4'S, and Piper's 0900, 0900A, AND 0900B WHOSE CHASSIS ARE, UNLIKE 0846'S, BUILT TO P4 PLANS.

Piper would have not had to make that mod. to do what he did when he fit a P4 tail to 0003/0846 AS HE DID IT INCORRECTLY THE REAR WHEEL WAS NOT CENTERED IN THE REAR WHEEL WELL IN 0003/0846, IT WAS OFF BY 12MM AND THE P4 TAIL STEPPED UP.

WE WERE ABLE TO CENTER THE WHEEL AND MATCH THE DOOR SHUT LINE BY MOVING THE ENTIRE TAIL FORWARD 12MM INTO THE CLEARANCE AFFORED BY THAT MOD. WHICH PROVES IMO THAT IT WAS DONE BY FERRARI IN DECEMBER 66 NOT BY SOMEONE ELSE AS WITHOUT IT YOU CAN'T CENTER THE WHEEL OR HAVE THE DOOR SHUT/TAIL BOTTOM EDGE LINE THAT ONLY 0846 HAD. PIPER DID NOT USE THAT SPACE AS HE NEVER FIT THE BODY CORRECTLY AS FERRARI HAD. (OF COURSE I HAVE THE TAIL PIPER FIT AND A REAL P4 TAIL 0858'S AND CAN PROVE THIS USING A RULER)

By centering the wheel in the wheel well I mean placing it so you can tilt up the tail without the inner panels of the wheel well hitting the tire as you tilt up the tail. That's why they stepped up the bottom edge of the tail on the P4's to clear the larger wheels and tires. On a P4 chassis if you don't step up you'll hit. On a P3 chassis if center the well inner panels you don't have to step up. On the P3's/412P'a with a 12mm longer wheel base you don't have to push the tail forward 12MM. ON 0846 WHICH IS A P3 CHASSIS WITH A P4 WHEELBASE IF YOU KEEP THE LOWER LINE EVEN WITH THE DOOR SHUT YOU HAVE TO PUSH INTO THIS SPACE.

We have looked and asked and believe the people who did this are no more.
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Again, Wow!

 

Jim,

Question, which chassis # is the b&w photo? If it is 0846 I notice some differences between the tail in the b&w photo and your color photo. Comparing the two I see that the curve of the fenderline starts to flatten out to match the top of the door. In the color photo the curve doesn't flatten out to smoothly match the door. Also the slots near the rear wheel look too far forward from the edge of the wheel arch. The seam line coming down from the hoop angles to form a line that lines up with the slot angle (in the b&w photo). Were there differences from tails fitted on different cars?