The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Question: Are those brake calipers on the half shafts flanking the transmission?!

 

jim,
the top right shot of 0846 with it framed by the other car in post 1337 is nice!

 

Yes when 0846 was a P3 it had inboard brakes as did the other P3's. When it was converted to a P3/ P4 the brakes were moved outboard and a new 603 gear box was eventually added. I believe that the gearbox that's in 0846 today is it's P3 gearbox used as a mule to engineer the 603 gearbox as it has 66 ACO Le Mans stamps, a welded/repaired case, (0846 DNF'd at Le Mans in 66 due to gearbox failure) and my gearbox was re engineered to move the brakes outward to P4 specifications as listed in 0846's Technical Data Sheets. Comparing 0846's 593 P3 gearbox to 0854's 603 P4 gearbox the main difference we've found is a larger sump on the 603 gearbox which results in better cooling.

 

This may be going out on a limb, but it's also worth noting that your welded "tube" isn't actually a tube. It's rectilinear, which may lead one to believe they completed the weld as a "quick fix" rather than some guy with no time on his hands replicating the welded tube that was originally there.

That conclusion may be far-fetched, but it seems to procure more evidence to your car being chassis 0846.

So you say that's where the chassis plate is supposed to go? That also may go further in explaining why so many Ferraris are "lost."

 

It's also interesting to note when looking at the press day photo's that 0846's original body was much closer to a P2 body and that this body was soon changed by Ferrari to a much different P3 body and eventually to a P3/P4 body.

 

Thank you. Is it fair to say that the brakes had to be moved outboard in order to provide room for the larger transmission sump?

Wouldn't the inboard brakes have been more desireable if not for that larger sump requirement?

 

Similar to this photo?

(PHOTO COPYRIGHTED TO MARCEL MASSINI)
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See post 979. I think we discovered the reason the tube was modified.

 

Inboard brakes would put more heat into the gearbox. It's interesting to note that Ferrari tried extra snorkel brake ducts that poked up through P3 0846's body to try and cool the brakes/gearbox so moving them outboard was probabley done to keep heat away from the gearbox and make the pads easier to change in long races.

Yes. Note double rear side latches. The tail at the rear side is cut at that point and rests on a sill as on the P2's and 250 LM's but not as on the P3's and P4's.

Best
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Jim,

So it's pretty much settled then? Even more so than 612 P4/5...this car (0846) has to make you smile everytime you see it. I'm hoping to make Pebble this August to see your car in the flesh...I'll let you know if I'm coming or not.

ciao

 

Copyright Marcel as posted in old photos thread 0846 with P3 body.
Compare with Marcel's copyrighted press day photo with P2 tail.
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Ahhh, and these are the snorkel tubes sticking out of the bottom of the tail section in Marcel's post in the 'Old Photos' thread? It all makes sense now.

[edit] Yes, that's the one I was talking about.

 

Okay. I see the differences now. As well as small changes to the headlight design, and the front seems more "squared-off." The vent on the hood of P3's and P4's are also different to those found on P2's...the P2 vent looks like it faces forward...while P3 and P4 vents look like they extract the air towards the windshield?

 

There are a lot of difference many you've noticed. The P4's extended the tail as well which helped reduce drag by keeping the air from separating from the body as abruptly.

 

Right...but...wouldn't the inboard brakes eliminate the need for brake rotors (i.e. save weight)?? Or were there rotors directly on the half-shafts?

That could be clever. Sad that they had to make the outboard modification for racing practicality (less heat on the gearbox, fast brake pad changes).

 

Weight was a concern then, but nearly as important as it is now. They used to carry all kinds of crazy stuff while racing...spare tires...toolboxes. If they car broke down away from the pits, the driver had to be able to fix the car with only the tools they chose to carry in the toolbox...so they could easily make the weight changes to other areas of the car...affording them the luxury of quick pad changing and a gearbox that wasn't glowing.

 

Interesting site on P4 models.

http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Album=GOBGN6QZ

 

Just curious as to what year that top photo was taken; the one with the tail raised?

 

Probably between May and June 66. Note snorkels at Targa and that they were cut off at the Ring. (See link photos and data). The photo says "Surtees" on the back so probably at Factory before Ring.

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0846.330P3.htm

 

I was just curious because of one small detail in the photo. There is a "bungee cord" on the back of the car, hanging loose. Those types of bungee cords seem to be common only within that past 20 years or so. But I can't remember ever seeing them available in stores, or in use anywhere, over 40 years ago. Maybe it's a regional thing. (Arkansas IS hillbilly country. We didn't get shoes until about 1970.)

 

They were available back then and were used to hold down the spare tire which is removed in that photo.

 

You of all people, being an airplane buff, should know they were used in WW I.

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/local/local_story_092222609.html

 

Was that standard procedure? Seems that I also remember seeing a photo of a 250LM that used leather straps to hold down the spare tire.

 

As 0856 also used them I suspect it was.

 

0846 at Sebring 1966.
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