The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread | Page 152 | FerrariChat

The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 1, 2003.

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  1. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Question: Are those brake calipers on the half shafts flanking the transmission?!
     
  2. icon

    icon Formula Junior

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    jim,
    the top right shot of 0846 with it framed by the other car in post 1337 is nice! :cool:
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    Yes when 0846 was a P3 it had inboard brakes as did the other P3's. When it was converted to a P3/ P4 the brakes were moved outboard and a new 603 gear box was eventually added. I believe that the gearbox that's in 0846 today is it's P3 gearbox used as a mule to engineer the 603 gearbox as it has 66 ACO Le Mans stamps, a welded/repaired case, (0846 DNF'd at Le Mans in 66 due to gearbox failure) and my gearbox was re engineered to move the brakes outward to P4 specifications as listed in 0846's Technical Data Sheets. Comparing 0846's 593 P3 gearbox to 0854's 603 P4 gearbox the main difference we've found is a larger sump on the 603 gearbox which results in better cooling.
     
  4. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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    This may be going out on a limb, but it's also worth noting that your welded "tube" isn't actually a tube. It's rectilinear, which may lead one to believe they completed the weld as a "quick fix" rather than some guy with no time on his hands replicating the welded tube that was originally there.

    That conclusion may be far-fetched, but it seems to procure more evidence to your car being chassis 0846.

    So you say that's where the chassis plate is supposed to go? That also may go further in explaining why so many Ferraris are "lost."
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    It's also interesting to note when looking at the press day photo's that 0846's original body was much closer to a P2 body and that this body was soon changed by Ferrari to a much different P3 body and eventually to a P3/P4 body.
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Thank you. Is it fair to say that the brakes had to be moved outboard in order to provide room for the larger transmission sump?

    Wouldn't the inboard brakes have been more desireable if not for that larger sump requirement?
     
  7. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    See post 979. I think we discovered the reason the tube was modified.
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    Inboard brakes would put more heat into the gearbox. It's interesting to note that Ferrari tried extra snorkel brake ducts that poked up through P3 0846's body to try and cool the brakes/gearbox so moving them outboard was probabley done to keep heat away from the gearbox and make the pads easier to change in long races.

    Yes. Note double rear side latches. The tail at the rear side is cut at that point and rests on a sill as on the P2's and 250 LM's but not as on the P3's and P4's.

    Best
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  10. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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    Jim,

    So it's pretty much settled then? Even more so than 612 P4/5...this car (0846) has to make you smile everytime you see it. I'm hoping to make Pebble this August to see your car in the flesh...I'll let you know if I'm coming or not.

    ciao
     
  11. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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  12. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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    Ahhh, and these are the snorkel tubes sticking out of the bottom of the tail section in Marcel's post in the 'Old Photos' thread? It all makes sense now.

    [edit] Yes, that's the one I was talking about.
     
  13. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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    Okay. I see the differences now. As well as small changes to the headlight design, and the front seems more "squared-off." The vent on the hood of P3's and P4's are also different to those found on P2's...the P2 vent looks like it faces forward...while P3 and P4 vents look like they extract the air towards the windshield?
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    There are a lot of difference many you've noticed. The P4's extended the tail as well which helped reduce drag by keeping the air from separating from the body as abruptly.
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Right...but...wouldn't the inboard brakes eliminate the need for brake rotors (i.e. save weight)?? Or were there rotors directly on the half-shafts?

    That could be clever. Sad that they had to make the outboard modification for racing practicality (less heat on the gearbox, fast brake pad changes).
     
  16. callaides

    callaides Formula Junior

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    Weight was a concern then, but nearly as important as it is now. They used to carry all kinds of crazy stuff while racing...spare tires...toolboxes. If they car broke down away from the pits, the driver had to be able to fix the car with only the tools they chose to carry in the toolbox...so they could easily make the weight changes to other areas of the car...affording them the luxury of quick pad changing and a gearbox that wasn't glowing.
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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  18. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

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    Just curious as to what year that top photo was taken; the one with the tail raised?
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    Probably between May and June 66. Note snorkels at Targa and that they were cut off at the Ring. (See link photos and data). The photo says "Surtees" on the back so probably at Factory before Ring.

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0846.330P3.htm
     
  20. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

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    I was just curious because of one small detail in the photo. There is a "bungee cord" on the back of the car, hanging loose. Those types of bungee cords seem to be common only within that past 20 years or so. But I can't remember ever seeing them available in stores, or in use anywhere, over 40 years ago. Maybe it's a regional thing. (Arkansas IS hillbilly country. We didn't get shoes until about 1970.)
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    They were available back then and were used to hold down the spare tire which is removed in that photo.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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  23. Horsefly

    Horsefly F1 Veteran

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    Was that standard procedure? Seems that I also remember seeing a photo of a 250LM that used leather straps to hold down the spare tire.
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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    As 0856 also used them I suspect it was.
     
  25. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ Honorary Owner

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