The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Wow, best pic, ever. Da Shark is on the loose.

Dale

 

Moving along...
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Remember that film "Hellraiser "?! Seriously, the metal work guy's a genius. What's ETA on getting car finished , Jim?

 

Darn, you're beating me to it. Wanted to say exactly the same thing. Love it!

 

Paint going on as we speak.

Best

 

An-ti-ci-pa-tion. It's like sweetie's getting undressed & spraying on some smell-good before she comes out to play.

 

This has been an interesting thread, almost reads like the Da Vinci code, what with traveling to and fro London, New York, Italy, to finding mysterious clues in the form of chassis twists and extra welds, to dealing with critics, to realizing 30-year-old photos which show important facts, to finally restoring it to its former beauty, and lastly, to proving almost without a doubt that it is indeed 0846.

Jim, I think a movie should be made of this. Maybe you can direct!

 

The truth is that this story is simply one of the 30 or so Gospels that didn't make it into the New Testament

 

Dead Sea scrolls

 

Now if somebody can only account for the gigantic missing gap in the "alleged" provenance and supply some witnesses to the "alleged" retrieval from the Modena scrap yard, then it will be all wrapped up! And, as I stated in post #122 of this thread:

 

I have skimmed through this thread once since I have been a member here but this thread is even longer then Jim's P4/5 thread. Can someone give me this thread in a nutshell as I am very interested in Jim's passion for cars.

 

Controversy around chassis no. 0846
One of the original cars, 0846, which was built as a P3 by Ferrari in 1966 and modified by Ferrari in December 1966 to accept a P4 engine while retaining it's P3 chassis and nose, was said to be totaled in a racing accident and discarded afterwards. Another is in a French automobile museum, while yet another is held by a Canadian collector, and the fourth (owned by American Walter Medlin) was set to be auctioned off in March 2005 to pay for back taxes before the owner came up with US$3 million to protect it.

Recently the P3/4 that was thought to be destroyed resurfaced in the possession of exotic car collector and enthusiast James Glickenhaus, the former movie director and stock exchange magnate. When he bought it, both he and the person he bought it from thought it was a replica chassis. After removing 1000 rivets, dissembling everything, stripping the chassis, researching the Ferrari build sheets and comparing the frame with 412P 0844, 412P 0850, 412P 0854, P4 0856, and P4 replica chassis 0900, 0900a, and 0900c he discovered that the car he had bought contained approximately 80+% of the original chassis of 0846.

"After Le Mans 1967 0846 was returned to the Ferrari factory where it was deconstructed, investigated and scrapped. Years later, James Glickenhaus acquired remains of 0846, and with help from Ferrari S.p.A. who recast suspension uprights, commissioned Sal Barone, Alberto Pedretti, Bob Wallace and John Hadduk Jr. to restore 0846 to original specifications." - XVII Giro di Sicilia Official Program
In an email dated 6/10/2005 Joanne Marshall of Ferrari S.p.A. wrote: "We confirm that, as far as our factory records are concerned, the chassis in question (0846) was totally written off in 1967 after the Le Mans incident."

Glickenhaus has never disputed this but believes that the remains of 0846, including 80+% of it's original chassis survived and that those and other remains of 0846 are currently in the car that he owns.

The following link [1] explains the basis for Glickenhaus' beliefs. This debate [2] has raged throughout 2004 among various Ferrari enthusiasts.

A letter from Ferrari S.p.A., dated September 29th, 2004, Subject: P3/4 Chassis no. 0846:

Dear Mr. Glickenhaus,
We wish to thank you for the extensive dossier you have sent regarding the above mentioned vehicle that as confirmed on our letter dated October 5th, we have examined in detail. The car was built on February 1966 as a P3 version and during its racing period, officially managed by the Factory, it went though several modifications in order to race the 24 hours of Daytona in 1967 as a P3/4. We also confirm that, as reported in your dossier, the car caught fire during the 24 hours of Le Mans. It was then totally dismantled and because of the extended damages detected, the factory decided not to perform any repair and to write off the chassis no. 0846. If some of the remaining components such as engine and gearbox were considered as possible spare parts, the chassis, because of its racing history and the fire damages suffered, was definitively scrapped. Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case. We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces but unfortunately the chassis no. 0846 had a sad conclusion.
Yours faithfully, Ferrari Classiche, Umberto Masoni"
This letter confirms that 0846's chassis was written off and scrapped, not melted into oblivion. For many years this is ALL and EXCATLY what Glickenhaus posited happened: That his car contains 80+% of the chassis remains of P 3/4 0846 among other original parts. He's never disputed that as far a Ferrari is concerned 0846 was written off/scrapped and under Ferrari's authentication definitions his car could not be authenticated by them. Glickenhaus is not the one who retrieved the chassis remains of 0846 "from the trash container" and used them to "to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off..." but he was the one who discovered exactly where the chassis remains of 0846 wound up and to insure that Umberto's wish: "We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces..." remains possible.

Glickenhaus has reportedly commissioned Pininfarina to build a new interpretation of the P3/4, to be called the P4/5, and based on an unregistered Enzo Ferrari chassis.


http://www.barchetta.cc/english/All.Ferraris/Detail/0846.330P3.htm

 

Thank you very, very much Mr. G. I appreciate your responses to myself, an eager teen who many(not on here) ignore. Also thanks for sharing your conquests for the ultimate fulfillment of your passion. Your the man!

 

Not all the Gospels that supposedly exist are contained within the dead sea scrolls. There is almost as much controversy about the Gospel of Judas as there is about this car!

 

Thanks for the progress pic's Jim ... looking good . It's a shame it has to be completed in many ways

Pete

 

The voyage is often more important that reaching the destination my friend...

 

Wise words. And I very much enjoy the words you state about the other project, when questioned about the cost.

Thanks for the summary. An updated PDF in the future?

 

Definitely. Soon.

Best

 

Excellent thought

 

I've drummed my fingers for a solid week... any pix of the spray?

 

Very, very soon my friend.

Best

 

Do we ever really reach "the" destination? The journey continues!

 

Tru dat.

 

Metal does weird things when it get very hot. It would be very simple to have the frame "inspected" and "tested" for heat damage or changes in molecular structure. If it is 80% of the original frame, then twenty percent of it will have a completely different make up. Even the make up of different metals from different years.

 

The 20% does.