The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Thanks Rob.

If from time to time something interesting comes up, hopefully it will be posted. By leaving it alone, it will become a non-issue.

Regards,

Art S.

 

I am sorry to intervene like this but when did the initial: "I wonder, could this really be 846?" now became: "This is 846 and anyone putting it in doubt will be prosecuted" ?

 

Possibly here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/155943.html around 1:36 pm

 

Read exactly what I wrote and note the date the Joker referred to. The legal identity of 1967 Ferrari P 3/4 0846 as currently in my possession has been established for many years, been accepted by NYS DMV, US and Italian Custom authorities published on a web site that Ferrari S.p.A. has sole discretion as to what is published thereon and the time period during which that legal identity can be challenged by anyone has long passed. Anyone who states anything to the contrary is showing a reckless disregard for the truth.

People remain welcome to examine 0846 and attempt to refute scientifically and forensically any of my conclusions. People are welcome to have any opinions they wish but they are not welcome to show a reckless disregard for the truth and state as fact that the legal identity of 0846 has not been established and accepted for many years.

For the last time. Ferrari scrapped 0846 and did not sell it's chassis remains to me or anyone. Ferrari has stated that the pieces they threw away should not have been used to rebuild or revival a car but did admit that these are "glorious pieces". Ferrari has asked me to point out that I rebuilt 0846 as it exists today which I continue to do. What this car is "entitled" be called is opinion. What this cars legal identity is, is fact.

 

Jim:
Sorry to say, but I think you are being a bit unfair on this post. Legal opinion might be one thing, but to any scientist worth his salt, it is NOT proof. What matters to the scientist is the FORENSIC evidence, NOT what any "governmental organization" has to say.....and IMO, ALL the forensic evidence we have so far, leads to the FACT that this IS 846......but this too, is only an opinion. Other people that use the scientific process to relize decisions may have an opposing opinion to mine....and I do not think we can ever know anything with absolute certainty...even this statement

Stu

 

Interesting.
Had never seen this before...

In any case this discussion is way past being about a car.

 

I agree John! I think that the owners should continue to get out and enjoy 0846 and give us all the benefit of seeing such a car in action! People can make any sort of fuss they like, but the history of the car is no secret, so when it only really matters is when it ever possibly hits the sale rooms. The owner has not tried to conceal anything about it as far as I can read, so it's much better than a 'barn find' that turns up after 30+ years with no/suspect provenance or a recently built replica/recreation that is artificially aged. In the meantime have fun in it and if anyone doesn't like it, they can go and find another one to swoon over

 

Hello, Paul Skett

Goodbye, Paul Skett

 

Dr Stu

Agree totally but in this case it was the Forensic Evidence that was gathered that caused me to be able to establish 0846's legal identity. It was presented to Ferrari who was told that it would be used to apply for that legal identity and that if they felt it was wrong they had a duty to act in a reasonable amount of time, examine my car, and protest that submission for legal identity. The fact that that legal identity was granted and the time for protesting it has passed is what it is, no more no less. It is not proof of anything except that that's what the cars legal identity is, that legal identity has stood for years, and the time to challenge it has long passed. The only reason I even mention it is because some have posted that this legal identity means nothing
and that I somehow tricked "Blue Haired Ladies" at NYS DMV into granting it.
That is not true and defamatory.

Ferrari has been informed at every step of the way, over a period of many years, exactly what I believe are the forensic reasons that the car I own is built on the chassis remains of 0846 and that I was using that underlying investigation to obtain a legal identity for the car I own that would enable it to be driven on the street and pass freely through customs in and out of Italy to attend events such as the Historic Targa Florio which specifically invited the car I own referring to it as 1967 Ferrari P 3/4 0846 as would/did it's customs and shipping documents.

Your and my opinion, that the forensic evidence supports the belief that this car is built on the chassis remains of 0846 is of course opinion based on forensic investigation but what the cars legal identity is today, has been for years, and that the period during which it can be legally challenged has long passed is clear public record and fact.

The final point is: Everything I've discovered has been disclosed. Everything others believe has been disclosed or been invited to be disclosed here. There is nothing "too hot to handle". David has both said and written the same thing over and over: that the car I own is built to P4 plans and I and scientific process have proven, beyond the shadow of any doubt that he was and is wrong. There is no grassy knoll from which a second shooter shot, no Lock Ness Monster, no Abominable Snowman.
Pluto is no longer a planet.

Many events are delighted to have her. She is free to travel worldwide to those events under an established legal identity. Other events such as Cavalinno don't want her. Hard Cheese for some but not for me...

Best Regards as Always!

 

Paul? The guy Macca proved really didn't understand what a P3 Gearbox was or what David's Auction description written up by Doug Nye "P4-style semi-monocoque centre section..executed by Mario Allegretti" meant? A bit sad that...

For the record Ferrari was in the loop long before 2002. They were in the loop from the first moment we began to realize exactly what the car I owned was.

 

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Staffan.

 

Staffan

Paul registered a new username " the Joker" and was subseqeuntly banned

 

i have not posted in this thread but i have followed it closely and i have to say that there should be no argument on if 0846 is really the original p4. it is so weird that one would argue to if it is real.

 

0846 is The p3/4 with the changes Ferrari made to it's chassis to corroborate

 

Would this be an accurate addendum?:

Only change Ferrari made on Owner's Site was 0846's vintage - based on the P3/4 chassis configuration.

 

The whole point is that it is NOT a P3 or a P4; it is the ONLY P3/4!!

 

As the young people say. Tru Dat.

 

P3 0846 was built by Ferrari in February 1966. P3 0846 was converted by Ferrari into P 3/4 0846 in December of 1966. My friend is quite correct in stating that when I entered ownership information including chassis n. 0846 into the required fields on the Ferrari Owner's Site I erroneously entered 1967 as the date of original manufacture and Ferrari corrected that entry to 1966 when they, in their sole discretion, placed 0846 into "My Garage" many years ago on the Ferrari Owners Site where it still resides with recently added photo's of her at the 2006 Historic Targa Florio.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=369231&d=1155050776

 

Like, dude...it's even not a 412P...fur shur...

 

Fact.

 

Whoa, just read the entire thread through, as well as the seemingly recently updated Wikipedia entry and the PDf from Mr. G's website. and feel as though I finally have somewhat of a grasp of the strory.

A few questions remain for me.

Now that 0854 is back to it's original config (am i right?) what has become of 0858's P4 body work? Is it now in the possesion of Mr. Medlin? Has is been reunited with chassis 0858? Furthermore, 0846's engine, i know it is a P4 motor but is there any idea of its source? A spare? Run in multiple chassis during the seasons? I understand that the gearbox is thought to be original. I'm guess that the clothes 0846 currently wears (spyder version ) have been recently fabircated in you workshop?

Also, has 0844 been returned to it's P4 configuration, leaving 0860 as the sole car in CanAm state?

All in all facinating stuff!

 

0854 is still being returned to it's original configuration with it's original coupe body.

0846 has been returned to it's original spyder configuration using 0858's spyder tail.

The heads in 0846 are the P4 heads that ran in 0846 at Le Mans in 1967 as are other engine parts as delineated in the 0846 papers and it's block is a spare block as described in the 0846 papers and stamped exactly as the spare P4 block in 0900.

The gearbox in 0846 is the original P3 gear box that ran in 0846 at Le Mans in 1966.

Best

 

Whoa thanks a lot!

 

I thought some of you might find this amusing. The ad appeared in the March 29, 1969 issue of Autoweek. I assume this is 0858.
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