The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

330 P3/4, 330 P4.
my dream. to touch. to cherish. he to give a kiss, to have allowed me 40 years ago very right, to fall in love insane with it, and to have a passion overflowing for its manufacturer.
which chance you have to be able to do it, the every day

 

Speaking of Fangio here's a watch I recently bought from FCHAT Sponsor
CollectorStudio.com
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Ok, i have a tr that ferrari cant recognize, you want it for 80K ? I cant believe some of these statments....lol !!!

Napolis you truly have a beuatiful car !! enjoy her in good health.

 

What a wonderfull watch!Pure history!Congrats!

 

There are several 250 TR's the histories and stampings of which are wrong and if you're speaking of one of those for 80K yup.

Stu is quite correct. All that matters is that which is true and provable.


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the watch,
it is fangio which offered it to its former mechanic for his birthday?
you to carry it not to the wrist. . .

 

Yes. I'm wearing it now.

Best

 

More race car history unraveling:

http://www.lolaheritage.co.uk/scrapbook/036/036_page1.htm

 

From http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,257219,00.html :

“The four seized jets were retired from active service at the Naval Air Station at Point Mugu, California in the late 1990s. A former Naval Chief Warrant Officer told investigators he sold the F-14s to a scrap dealer without verifying they were properly demilitarized and expected the fighter jets to be destroyed, the affidavit said.”

You just never know when things that were SUPPOSED to be destroyed somehow end up surviving!

(Not that I agree with the theory, but to be objective, one must acknowledge various possibilities. As Mr. Spock said, “To deny the truth would be illogical.”)

 

One of the most difficult chores I face each day is getting people to tell me what they actually know as opposed to what they think should be. It must be an inherent human trait to not want to own up to not having the facts.

 

Jim,
Here's a question that may have been answered at some point but I can't locate the answer. The shut line on the door and rear hatch are inline on your car (0846), and this appears to be the same for 412P's. Does this hold true for 330 P4's also?

 

P 3/4 0846 and all of the 412P's are built on P3 chassis. The P4's are built on P4 chassis. The door shut line and the rear hatch is inline on P 3/4 0846 and the 412P's. On the P4's it is not as the rear hatch is stepped up. The reasons for this are quite interesting and tell us a lot of the "why's" of the cars engineering and construction. This is a very important detail and is gone into in great length in the final version of the 0846 papers which will come out in early 08. There is also discussion of this earlier in this thread.

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Finally I understand what is meant by 'shutlines'. Weird dutchie I am! In 1:18 all shutlines are the same (P4). All my P3/4 recreations will be destroyed and serial numbers scrapped.

 

Arlie, cool story! Too bad the planes will be destroyed.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art

"The jets will be partially dismantled and taken to the military's Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center in Tucson, Arizona, for storage and final demilitarization."

"demiltarized" does not mean "destroyed"...

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Jim,

Last time I looked into this, it 'demilliterization' means cutting the wings and tailfeathers with a sawsall in such a manner that they cannot be reconstituted. i doubt they will be display-worthy when done.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art,

You really do need to strengthen your funny, (or should I say irony), bone. Yale

 

Yes and no. Read the last part of this:

"A: Many were imported from other countries like Canada, France, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Russia, Yugoslavia, and others. When these countries remove them from their military inventories, they occasionally make them available on the worldwide market. Some resourceful individuals have been able to import them to the U.S. and elsewhere, where they are assembled, restored, inspected, certified, and sold to private owners, collectors, and museums. They do not, for the most part, come from military aircraft storage in Arizona, as is often reported. This is because the U.S. military does not sell tactical-type aircraft directly to the public unless the aircraft have been "demilitarized," a process which renders them unusable and unrestorable by chopping critical components, such as wing spars, in half. Some aircraft flying today have been painstakingly assembled from parts of several other scrapped or derelict airplanes. Federal laws affecting this activity are ever tightening."

Some wings have slipped through in the past by creative use of the measuring requirements for "cut up" wing spars although as the last sentence points out this is less likely to happen anymore.

Either way while they might not be flyable they certainly could be put together for display purposes which I beleive is how they were being used.

Arlie wasn't there a pretty sophisticated fighter that slipped through this way and flew for a while after being "demilitarized" ?

Best

 

Jim,

Thanks for clarifying.


Yale,

I broke my funny bone, that could explain a few things .

Regards,

Art S.

 

Here's one for you...


Location: LANDA AND ASSOCIATES 360-474-8991
United States /Seattle-Tacoma

The only F/A-18A in private ownership in the world.

This former Navy Blue Angel jet, was number 131 off the line, it has 3793 TT Total Airframe hours. 2 Engines are GE F404-GE-400 with 0 Zero time, and one spare parts engine.

Aircraft is apart only for transporting purposes and needs to be gone through and re-assembled. Everything to assemble we have. It has not flown in a few years and is stored in california.

It has an N number.

This aircraft was never demilled, "not cut ever".

Complete with extras including bomb racks, drop tanks and pylons.

The current owner will assemble aircraft making it airworthy, with your choice of paint for 9Million Guaranteed, with a lease back offer paying all maintance, parts, fuel, and an hourly rate to its new owner. Was Number 1 and Number 5. Serial number:161973---Lot #6----Block # 13---Don't miss out on this one!


CALL FOR PHOTOS, AVIONICS, TIMES.

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CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING.


Blue Angel for sale Navy plane shows up on eBay Nicole Lozare @PensacolaNewsJournal.com After almost 50,000 hits in two days, no one is buying what Mike Landa is selling on eBay. Everyone just wants to know how he acquired the Navy Blue Angels' F/A-18 Hornet. Landa and Associates of Washington state is selling the jet for $1,050,000 - some assembly required. It's a bargain compared to the jet's usual $18 million price tag. A former Blue Angel F-18 Hornet is for sale on ebay. Click here to view the sale. "It has been acquired legitimately," said Landa, who said he was visited by the FBI on Tuesday, a day after he posted the jet on the popular Internet auction site. Landa, an aircraft and telecommunications broker, is keeping a tight lip on the owner's identity. He met the owner in California while purchasing airplane parts. Wednesday afternoon, Blue Angels spokesman Mike Blankenship confirmed the aircraft's heritage. "According to the bureau number, it was a Blue Angels plane flown in the early '90s," said Blankenship, who has no clue how Landa acquired it. "It was stricken from the Navy's inventory in 1994." According to the Department of Defense, the Navy's planes are not usually sold to private citizens. When an aircraft is retired, officials determine if it should be kept for wartime reserves. If the aircraft doesn't pass muster, it is demilitarized - military insignia and sensitive equipment, such as ejection seats, are removed. The aircraft is then sent to a boneyard. "The Navy has programs where this aircraft is leased to museums," said department spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Cappy Surette. "Occasionally, it can be sold to third parties on a case-by-case basis. But Navy policy prohibits reselling of these aircrafts." The official word on eBay's Blue Angels jet? "We are aware, and the matter is being looked into," Surette said. Officials at the National Museum of Naval Aviation had the same response. Landa's eBay site claims the aircraft was "never demilled, not cut ever," and comes with bomb racks, drop tanks and pylons. The aircraft, which has not been flown in years, is stored in California. Landa said there must have been "a screw up" for the owner to acquire a demilitarized aircraft. He is optimistic that a buyer will step up _ probably a private collector who he hopes to talk into leasing the aircraft back to the government for some photography work. Landa has a pretty clean eBay record. A member since 1998, he has a 97.3 percent positive feedback from more than 400 buyers. But the Blue Angels jet is just small potatoes. Landa is also selling a new aircraft "that climbs straight up" for $10 million.

 

Two interesting articles in May 2007 Forza that touch on some of these issues.

P58 on 0666

P49 on the "Trofeo dei due Mondi"

 

I realize this has nothing to do with 0846, but...

Often these aircraft are moved to non-defense government agencies at the end of their service life. For example, the BLM operates OV-10s and I believe NASA operates F-18s, U-2s, and T-38s. I'm reasonably sure other agencies also operate various military aircraft.

Now, I would guess that what those civilian agencies do with the aircraft once they are done with them may not be as strict as what the military does.

 

Sorry for the late reply. You may be thinking of Darryl Greenamyer's F-104 that he constructed out of salvaged bits and pieces. Unfortunately, he had to bail out after the landing gear failed to lower. (and let's not even start on the subject of Greenamyer and the B-29 in Greenland.)

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0843422&WxsIERv=Ybpxurrq%20S-104Q%20Fgnesvtugre&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Hagvgyrq&QtODMg=Zbwnir%20%28ZUI%29&ERDLTkt=HFN%20-%20Pnyvsbeavn&ktODMp=Znepu%2024%2C%201987&BP=0&WNEb25u=Qnivq%20Yrqavpre&xsIERvdWdsY=A104EO&MgTUQtODMgKE=N%20fnq%20cvpgher%20-%20nyy%20gung%20jnf%20yrsg%20bs%20Qneely%20Terranzlre%27f%20Fgnesvtugre%20va%201987.%20Terranzlre%20ohvyg%20guvf%20Fgnesvtugre%20hfvat%20cvrprf%20bognvarq%20sebz%20znal%20fbheprf.%20Ba%20Bpgbore%2024gu%201977%2C%20ur%20frg%20n%20SNV%203xz%20fcrrq%20erpbeq%20bs%20988.26%20zcu%2C%20juvpu%20fgvyy%20fgnaqf.%20Ba%20Sroehnel%2026%2C%201978%2C%20juvyr%20cercnevat%20na%20nffnhyg%20ba%20gur%20SNV%20nygvghqr%20erpbeq%2C%20ur%20jnf%20hanoyr%20gb%20trg%20gur%20ynaqvat%20trne%20gb%20ybpx%20orsber%20ynaqvat.%20Nf%20vg%20jnf%20qnatrebhf%20gb%20ynaq%20va%20guvf%20pbaqvgvba%2C%20ur%20jnf%20sbeprq%20gb%20rwrpg%20naq%20gur%20nvecynar%20jnf%20qrfgeblrq%2C%20nf%20fubja%20va%20guvf%20cvpgher.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=19923&NEb25uZWxs=2005-05-22%2012%3A29%3A07&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=183-1024&static=yes&width=1136&height=780&sok=JURER%20%20%28cubgbtencure%20%3D%20%27Qnivq%20Yrqavpre%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20ivrjf%20QRFP&photo_nr=3&prev_id=0686592&next_id=0777935

 

Arlie,

Please do not raise the Greenmyer/Key Bird issue - It makes me see red (in a bad way) every time it think about it!

F-104s are still somewhat replacable as they were used all over the world - great plane!

Regards,

Art S.

 

Hi

Yes that's the one I was thinking off.

Best