The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Why are you circling and beating this horse again? Read through the thread, Jim's been up-front about everything.

 

Some things you can just not make up.

 

So the owner will have two sets of bodywork on his wall now, the Can Am one and the latest clams. Lucky man

 

Only place for it (if you can afford this car).

I'm liking this new owner
Pete

 

Jim, if the following quoted paragraphs by yourself, including the communications from Ferrari, are the basis for you saying that Ferrari have confirmed in writing that you resurrected 0846 on its original chassis you have totally misinterpreted their communications and quoted them out of context to mean what they do not. Ferrari have not confirmed in writing that you have resurrected 0846 on its original chassis at all.

Umberto Masoni of Ferrari Classiche in his letter to you dated 29th September, 2004 does NOT confirm: "That his car contains 80+% of the chassis remains of P 3/4 0846 among other original parts."

He is not confirming that you have revived a written off car and in so doing authenticating 0846 as he ends his sentence with, "if this is the case."

"Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case."

What does Ferrari recasting some P4 suspension uprights prove? There isn't even a reference to the chassis number 0846 on the invoice.

Regarding the Ferrari web site for your "My Garage", the fact that they have referred to a model P3/4 Spyder as a P4 and pictured a P4 Berlinetta says it all. There are many mistakes on that web site.



The following are the contents of a post that Jim Glickenhaus has made on a number of forums and in his own 0846 document.

 

When Barrichello was in Maranello, a great leader of the Factory, has manufactured a 250 lm for the case of Rubens man. They attributed an old chassis number 250 this LM (who was still alive) This shows that the plant can easily assign whatever she wants to whomever she wants.

This was reported to me by a person (now deceased) who work hard for the plant and was a great specialist of Ferrari.


Quand Barrichello était à Maranello, un grand dirigeant de l'Usine, a fait fabriquer une 250 LM pour l'homme d'affaire de Rubens. Ils ont attribué un ancien numéro de chassis à cette 250 LM (qui était toujours en vie) Cela démontre bien que l'Usine peut facilement attribuer ce qu'elle veut à qui elle veut.

Cela m'a été rapporté par une personne (aujourd'hui décédée) qui a beaucoup travailler pour l'Usine et qui était un très grand spécialiste de Ferrari.

 

You are joking right?
Pete

 

not at all. this is a very serious person told me

 

That is very true. For the 99% of us, the discussion is academic. I will be ecstatic to have any one of them sitting in my garage.

Andres

 

If my memory serves me right this 250 LM actually was one of the first if not the first Ferrari to be Classiche Certified! And the then head of Classiche once confirmed at a dinner in Monterey that they thought that among the three existing LMs with the same chassis number the certified one - owned by Ruben's manager - was the most original one.

 

It would be nice to hear directly from D.P. how he feels on the subject.My impression is that he views 0900/0900a/0900b as reproduction/replicas of a certain type of P4 Ferraris.I don't believe he has claimed otherwise. These three have been largely an open book since they were created and basicly how they came to be is perfectly clear. It would appear that the owner of 0858 is sincerely interested in the real originality of 0858 and more credit to him or her. After all the original 0858 was a real P4 and should be preserved as such as best as possible as originally built. tongascrew

 

#6606: Dealing with death and resurrection is a wonderful catholic tradition and profitably established in Italy since the mid age. It provides to many a marvellous ground for consolation as well as speculation and should’n be stopped in modern days not even from Ferrari. However, all this is fine but do not change the fact of death and The Lord’s rules.

 

Exerpt from Umberto Masoni of Ferrari Classiche's letter to you re 0846 dated September 29th, 2004.

"Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case. We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces but unfortunately the chassis no. 0846 had a sad conclusion."

In addition to post 6616: There is nothing in writing from Ferrari stating they believe that you can actually resurrect anything or confirming that you have resurrected anything. The words in bold are the punchlines/salient points of the two above sentences. Conclusion = End. You saying that Ferrari chastised you is an overstatement of what they actually said.

 

The fact that Ferrari on a web page that they publish in their sole discression unequivobly
state that I have owned 0846 since 2000 in this particular case does exactly that.

The legal proceeding that confirmed that fact and can not be challenged by anyone ever speaks for itself.

 

IMO why Classiche is ... I can't say what I'd like to say on a public forum.

We have talked about this before, but Ferrari seriously, without even quivering, believe they can do whatever they like because they are Ferrari, but that is not fair on the people that have invested large sums of money on historic Ferraris. Eventually I suspect they will p!ss somebody off who has extremely large reserves of funds and there will be one heck of a lawsuit and in a non-Italian court surely Ferrari cannot win.

They should have given this new LM a new number IMO.
Pete
ps: I'm glad that I cannot afford something historic like a 250LM, or an Alfa Romeo GTA/TZ. My 1750 GTV is too common to be worried ... might go racing instead for my next car ...

 

Clearly the writer of that web page doesn't know their Ferraris or what 0846 was, a 330 P3/4 Spyder, not a 330 P4 Berlinetta. As the picture is of 0856, they are stating that you own that car. I'm sure Mr Stroll would have something to say about that. It's all in the details and they are incorrect so the web page does not fully stack up as Ferrari stating that you own 330 P3/4 Spyder 0846.
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Yes, clearly.

>8^)
ER

 

Clearly > having to eat crow.

 

That's why the legal proceeding I brought was in The US and why Ferrari lists me as the owner of specific chassis 0846 on their web site.

 

Please can you tell the forum exactly what these legal proceedings were.

 

In the very same section of Ferrari's site have the factory bothered to find the exact correct images of other owners historic cars and posted them to their specific 'owner garage' or have they merely found stock images of models?

I think its only fair to disclose just how accurate those pages are with other examples.

 

0846 and 0850 are both at Amelia.