The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

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I for one, like many others out there think its fantastic that this example exists, its in superb order and built from so many original parts, regardless of where they originated from. No other car claims to be 0846 so this is as good as it can ever get.

These cars stopped being original from the first day they rolled off the transporter for their initial race anyway.

The only thing i guess I find difficult to understand is Jims positive promotion of his own example, and how it currently came about, with all his full disclosure, which then takes an about face in relation to 0858, when in reality each car has gone through changes, and then reverted back to how they once were.

0846 was at one stage a pile of parts and a chopped up chassis and is now essentially back to its glorious past just the same as 0858 radically changed and has now regressed, but maybe not quite gone back to 100% in the case of either example, but pretty bloody close so as to be insignificant.

Ferrari say 0858 is a Can Am and 0846 is long gone. The thing is Ferrari dont own either car so dont really have much say in the matter other than an opinion, just like all of us.

The kings are dead, long live the kings. Two glorious examples with passionate owners what more could any enthusiast want to see and hear

Same with David Pipers 0900, I am so glad all 3 cars exist.

 

Here's the difference to me.

0846 was what it was, I did what I did as best as I could have, and as you say 0846 will never get better than what it is today based on what happened to it in the day.

0858 up until recently was a totally original 350 Can Am. The only surviving 350 Can Am. I do feel that to take that and fit it with a replica P4 body especially as it involved the cutting and removal of part of the last original 350 Can Am chassis as built by Ferrari in the Day was not something I would have done. I also feel that the Talacrest/DP replica body was poorly done. The new owner seems to agree with me as he binned the Talacrest/DP replica body, had another replica tail made and now according to others will bin that and has found an original P4 body which he will fit to 0858. I hope he has and accept that that's what he wants to do with his car. That said I personally think 0858 is a 350 Can Am not a P4 and glossing over some facts by calling it "330 P4" when it's motor is definitely 350 Can Am is not full disclosure as I've striven to do for many years.

Cheers

 

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This is true, the kings are no longer with us.There is however one person left who was "there at the creation" that gave the P series a new lease on life. As anyone in his unique position David Piper is controversaL but he is our last real link with the best of the past. tongascrew

 

Not really. Have you heard of Mauro Forghieri?

His involvement in the creation of the P4 far exceeds any involvement Piper had with the car after the fact.

 

True Dat.

 

And some of the artisans in Italy who worked on these cars first hand are still around, too, no?

 

They are.

 

Absolutely.........and then some.

 

Great post.

 

Chris Amon is still around too ...
Pete

 

....as is Peter Sutcliffe.

 

Oh, and don't forget Nino Vaccarella.

 

....or Big John Surtees 1964 Ferrari Formula 1 World Champion.

 

Facts are facts.

Tongascrew may want to take his own advice and do his homework before he accuses yet another member of not knowing what they are talking about.

Not saying I'm a "homework" genius but... at the very least I know that our last real link with the best of the past is the one person left who was "there at the creation" and actually.... created the car and gave the P series its lease on life. In other words it is true, that the ACTUAL king is STILL with us. Maybe not the King Enzo but when it comes to the P4 I believe Mauro Forghieri is a king in his own right.

Just saying....

 

True!!!

 

Somehow, looking at the work carried out by Piper on the replica body fitted to 0858, I don't think he employs (m)any of them.

 

Pretty sure any is the operative word here.

 

Just to clarify, my own reference to kings was in relation to the cars not the creators.

I can see how in relation to the work carried out to 0858 its still recent history, but in 20 plus years time, the Piper conversion and subsequent work by the new owner will be past history and part of the cars overall story, much like those they have from the 60s and 70s.

The engine may have been resleeved by then, but from what I understand a number of 250 GTO's currently have a larger displacement than original and it has no effect on their desirability and hence value so I don't really see the point of doing so.

 

Guess again.

History happens when history happens. As in it happens in period and not twenty years later.

This piece of history is after the fact and this is the 0846 thread.

Those 250 GTO motors may have been re-sleeved but they started out as 250 GTO motors. Whereas this motor, although similar to P4, was built as a 350 Can Am Motor not a P4.

You can play football on a baseball field. Doesn't make it baseball.

 

^^^ 350 Can Am motors (tipo 247) started out as 330 P4 motors (tipo 237). They are just bored out to add a total of about only 208cc.

 

Key word there is Ferrari designated them as different tipos whereas this is not the case when a 250 GTO motor is bored out.

 

I can give a very good guess where from, and many times.

 

I've heard that some of the 250 GTOs with bigger engines have completely the wrong tipo engine, not just a tipo Comp. 168/62 bored out.