The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

You surprise me again.I have taken a lot of s..t for not only building this car but just owning a "fake".OK that's fine. I chalk this up to "I am glad I did it once.I would never do it again." Thanks for the offer.The car is a real beast.I wouldn't recommend anyone get behind the wheel even after on light beer.If anything comes of my offer ,please let me know. The offer stands. tongascrew

 

I would like to point out that in the below post where I am trying to explain that the auction description in no way explains the building of the chassis I should clarify a point.

I am talking about the tubing part of the chassis. As it is a semi-monocoque the chassis is actually comprised of two parts, the tubing and the sheet metal.

When referring to the tubing I mentioned chassis.

I am saying that it in no way describes the building or modification of the tubing part of the chassis. It explains that the chassis was built to original form. The only mention of P4 build is the aluminum part of the chassis by Allegreti.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/143167392-post8424.html

 

+1 That's when public opinion would really come into play IMO. What a room that would be.

 

It is a bitsa, and bitsas come to market all the time. If the world were rational, it would sell for a reasonable fraction of a no-stories car with an undisputed history.

Of course, 0846 has a lot of notoriety associated with it, so maybe it would sell for more than that. Or less... Who knows.

 

This is Macca's post, stating Macca's experience with Piper, that Wax is talking about when he refers to PSK's post.

See below....

 

Yes. I will change my post to reflect that.

I was referring to Wax's post, referring to PSK's post, Referring to Macca's post.

As even I'm confused at this point, I will edit my post to clarify my above post.

As it says Maaca in the actual post, I assumed it would be clear to people.

I was just posting the actual post versus the link that wax posted due to I believe people just gloss over links.

 

Is there any possibility when Mr Piper bought the "old spares" from Ferrari that stuff from "the Ferrari junk pile" as people refer to it were included?

What if some old mostly there chassis was included?

I work in R&D with aircraft and we have a junk pile to pull from for some parts testing. These are parts that are non airworthy and can never go on or near a live aircraft, but are fine for limited testing use in our laboratory, where I work.

Why could there not have been permission given to Mr Piper to take "whatever" from the " junk pile" at Ferrari, and in that junk pile, was all that was left of 0846? Throw some body bits on it, wheels / tires, a spare drive train and you have another running , driving toy with which to make use of all the spare junk you have.

You think some aircraft parts manufacturer would want some ancient Engineering prototype we dig up in our lab, knowing its obsolete and worthless, but yet it still physically exists?

No, of course not. They wrote it off some balance sheet by its placard, part number and serial number ages ago. Does not exist "to them".

So did Ferrari, they said they scrapped "0846" from their books.

That does not mean it was not sitting outside in the weather as a naked pile of tubes.

So why cant whats left still be the remains of, "0846" ?

Better for all of us fans for it to survive in some form, than to have been turned to recycled metal in the 70's.

I picture and old work truck and trailer hauling off a big pile of dusty, discarded bits from the Ferrari junk pile, (with permissions and blessings) without so much as a look from management or the workers. Simply because everything in that part of the yard is discarded and not worth getting up from the table to challenge those leaving and see whats there.


Could have happened. ?

 

Ferrari qualified statements by saying They did not directly give away or sell chassis parts.

After receiving 120 page documentation from JG, a few things occurred:

Ferrari also qualified their statements regarding present-day chassis debatably known as 0846 by indicating any chassis parts [referred to as Glorious Pieces] should not have been retrieved by anyone, and were clear that if such was the case, JG was not directly involved in procuring said pieces from where wrecked PROVA Ferrari Race Car chassis go . . . gone, but not forgotten.

Some may take issue with the word "if". To them I submit what Ferrari did after receiving documentation:

Cast new uprights in place of the originals. These are quite specific to the rare chassis.

No "'if's', 'ands' or 'buts'" about that. If it was not bonafide, Ferrari wouldn't have done that.

Ambivalent Words are one thing [due to official "scrapping" [not Destroyed] and striking 0846 from official ongoing records] Non-ambivalent Actions are another, eh?

0846 has been on home turf where, as a legally public road racing vehicle [PROVA] it ran with required Italian plate MO-53 and Ferrari did not seize the car, nor take any action, before during or after JG's appearance and success at Targa Fioro.

 

I think that Wax has nailed it.

Ferrari cannot move an inch as even they may not be 100% sure of events, as is usually the case when such arrangements are made, particularly if a senior manager or even Enzo was involved.

They'll never open the proverbial gate of originality via their old race parts disposal area and for that reason it will always be in the hands of an owner to prove what they have. We are lucky that 0846 is in very meticulous hands and lessons have been learned through this approach.

 

I could have a Norwood replica p4 built, assign it the chassis number 0846 have it registered in my country of origin and then drive it through Italy just the same, the Italian authorities as long as I had the correct paperwork for that car would be satisfied and Ferrari would have no rights to seizure either.

 

See post 8415 I have proposed a solution which might help clear the air.How about it?? tongascrew

I have proposed a solution that might help clear the air.See post 8415. How about it/ tongascrew

.. some facts...... See post 8415 I have proposed a solution that should help clear up some of the controversy. How about it. tongascrew

Read post 8415. Help arrange this possibility and you could be more than just a fly on the wall. tongascrew

See post 8415.I have suggested a solution that should clear up at lease some of the unanswered questions. How about it. tongascrew

See post 8415.Here is a solution that will help clear up at least some of the questions at hand. How about it? tongascrew

 

If it has a Ferrari badge on it, I'm not so sure that's true. If it has a Norwood badge, then yes, I think you could.

Why don't you do that and let us know how it goes?

 

He could drive it to tongascrew's Beer Summit!

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people thats day is brightened by seeing that shape rolling down the road. How often does anyone ever see that car? Was just joking about the booze and drive, I always look for a laugh when I can....

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=italians+crush+replica+car

I prefer to look at it as Tonga's Booze Summit.

Great idea. Ya never know.

 

If I order in the next 30 minutes, will I get a second set free + a bonus roll-on headache thingamobob & pay only shipping & handling on the bonus items?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Shipping and handling are extra.

LOL

 

You can buy an official Ferrari badge from Ferrari and then stick it on anything you like. If I put a prancing horse badge on my fridge does that then make it a fake ferrari fridge? no

Try to sell it as a Ferrari fridge and yes their are then legal implications.

Any cars impounded in Italy are due to copyright infringements, Ferrari hold no copyright on the P4, and its well past the 25 year rule now anyway even if they did.

Next......

 

25 years. Hmmm?

Mercedes-Benz crushes ?unlawlful? Gullwing replica

Like Donv said:

Next.......

 

Here's another example even closer to home:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/maserati/245436-maseratis-melted-down.html

>8^)
ER

 

Here's a little reading....

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/307460-ferrari-confiscating-crushing-replicas.html

If you think it's a stretch that Piper would overlook and not notice such a thing as the engine mounts....

well, I think it's a stretch to believe Ferrari would overlook and not notice a fake ripping around the historic Targa Florio...

Thoughts.....?

 

This is Jim's baby, he would need to ask.

 

See Post 11 - It would be considered unwise.
Ferrari P4 replica? - FerrariChat.com

Jim Carpenter was mentioned on that thread and chimed in on another . . . Nearly 10 years after he'd sold the business that among other things, fashioned P4's & converted 308's into wannabee-288's.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-discussion-not-model-specific/342059-about-jim-carpenter.html

Outside of Trademarks, there's also a little something called "trade dress issues" which you may never have heard of . . .
Ferrari

 

Paul,
You're not up to date on Italy's and it appears Mercedes attitude to replicas. The old Maseratis that were crushed (at least one of them anyway) had original and very rare running gear but the car was still crushed.

If I owned Jim's #0846, I would not take it to Italy but it has been ...

I hate replicas so in some ways I applaud this but it is a damn shame the original components of the Maserati replicas were not allowed to be saved first!
Pete