The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

CASE CLOSED

 

Agreed.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

The fact that the original chassis remains would seem to be pretty good news to anyone who cares about Ferrari history. Hopefully even Steve will take some joy in that.

 

Quite bizarre, so the same photos that MF clearly stated did not show the work of Ferrari at all, now show that it in his opinion it was.

A 100% about turn.

Maybe Jim was right at that time when he said MFs memory was dubious!!!

Oh well hopefully the debate dies a death now.

Lovely car regardless.

 

It might be petty of me... but considering the vigorous denials by Steve of the authenticity of 0846, based in large part on interpretations of Dr Forghieri's previous comments, I am really looking forward to Steve's thoughts on Dr Forghieri's new document, and on how that changes his thoughts about 0846.

Come on, Steve!

 

Good to hear.

 

One can only hope that people are open minded enough to read the attachment and ponder what it says, in my mind it is now case closed that this is #0846. However some will cling to their version of events.

 

I saw the picture on Facebook, but I guess I missed the official post. Where did he put it up? I'm glad to read what ING Forgheri wrote. I believe him.

 

J'ai lu, et surtout entendu plusieurs interwieu de Mauro Forghieri, que je respecte plus que tout. Mais plus d'une fois il se trompait sur tels ou tels événements, auquel il avait pourtant participé. Et je me disais à chaque fois: "comment peut-il se tromper à ce point. Il a vécu tellement de choses, qu'il peut tout simplement se tromper, ou mélanger certains événements"
Aujourd'hui, je trouve étonnante cette lettre, je me demande d'où elle proviens.


I read, and especially heard several interview Mauro Forghieri, which I respect more than anything. But more than once he was wrong on this or that event, which he had yet participated. And I thought every time: "how can it be wrong at this point he has been through so much, it can simply be mistaken, or mix some events."
Today, I find surprising that letter, I wonder where she proviens.

 

"shows exactly how accurate his memory of events past really is."

 

Well, I now read his answer #7387 to my post about methodology with a certain delight; but as, to him, Forghieri is "the ultimate expert" and has no memory issue, case is indeed closed: 0846 it is. And I also warned in post #7390 about putting too much trust in his affirmations.
Oh well...
Rgds

 

Wow!I was able to see in my life the end of this story!
However I hope we will speack more about this "special" car!!!!!
Dear James if you think to go in Sicily will you please let us know?
With a little trip I'll came from Tuscany to see Her!!!!!
All the best
Alessandro

 

Photo from James Glickenhaus' Facebook page. To give you an idea of where the letter comes from:
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LOLOLO, well done Jim, another theory conspiracy put to rest.....

 

dans ce cas... ce n'est n'est pas un faux, c'est certain

 

il y aura toujours ceux qui voudront prouver le contraire...

And life goes on....

 

Il ya des uns que ne croyez pas que l'homme est dejá arrivée sul la lune...

 

Note that, from a methodological point of view, which has always been my interest here…see posts 7387 and 7390 already mentioned.
(I do not feel qualified enough or capable enough to make any statement about the car, even if I have an opinion about it).

Mauro Forghieri’s statement, even very respectable and an argument of weight, is not a proof; it is still a clue. As I have already written, unless an enormous surprise, we will probably never have a definitive proof. It is now up to every person reading the March 14 letter to draw his own conclusions and decide what weight it should be given, if it is satisfying and to what purpose:
“Do I accept Mauro Forghieri’s opinion as “reasonably establishing” that the car is 0846 indeed?”.
This depends on the weight – or credit – one is giving to Mauro Forghieri as an expert. I more or less have an idea of what credit his opinion would be given in a court here, and to what statement it might lead, but not in other countries.

Rethoric and dialectic tell us that the only person(s) that is(are) now obliged to submit to this letter as the definitive proof that this car is the one and only 0486 indeed is the person(s) that, against what I have tried to explain about methodology in history (difference between clue, opinion, advice, statement or proof) has(have) stated that Forghieri’s word cannot be challenged and must be given the value of a proof, as he must be considered as the ultimate expert. This/these persons must now accept that the car is 0846, there is no other possibility.
I tried to warn against the consequences of such shortcuts in methodology, but admittedly, English is not my native tongue.

Rgds

 

Silence speaks volumes.

 

I think his head probably exploded.

Good for Jim - long live #0846!

>8^)
ER

 

Je voulais dire que ce document, lui, ce n'est pas un faux.

Et que peut-être, M. Forghieri, pour faire avancer les choses qui trainent depuis dix ans, et qui divisent les Ferrariste du monde entier, a bien voulu mettre un terme à tout ceci.

Moi, je reste sur mes positions. 0846-2005 n'a plus rien à voir avec la 330 P3/4 de 1967.

Oui-oui, le 20 juillet 1969, j'ai passé la nuit entière devant mon poste de télévision.

 

I don't think there is much doubt about the weight of his expertise -- especially if he did the welding himself (almost sounds like it from the text of latest letter, though English is clearly not his first language, so it may not mean that). The latest letter seems to be definitive proof. The only issue is that there was a prior letter from him to Steve indicating the opposite. I doubt Steve is ducking the thread, I feel certain he is trying to contact Mauro Forghieri to try to understand what happened and I'm sure we will hear from him once he as done that.

 

The copy of your document is not with this post. Can you post it again. tonga's crew

 

Targa Florio 2016...be there!
#0846

 

Awesome.