The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

In my mind this latest letter cancels out the letter sent to Steve and the matter is simply back to where it started before MF became involved.

It appears that when MF stated it was not 0846 he was derided by some, but now that he says it is, then he is lauded by the very same people, he cannot be both! so neither of his testimonies hold any weight anymore.

Unless of course he has actually examined the car in greater detail or been provided with further photographs, but his first letter did state the way the chassis was converted to take a P4 engine on Jims car was not the way Ferrari would have done it, and his second letter does not identify why he has taken a 100% about turn on his view as to originality.

 

While you are accurate in your appraisal, the opposite is also true, in that other posters publicly stated that the original letter was absolute PROOF in the negative, that makes the latest letter absolute proof in the positive by their OWN rules.

 

It does not really matter one iota what anyone on fchat actually thinks on the subject be it positive or negative, I guess the views of the establishments that have previously precluded Jims car will be of far more interest to him as to whether it would now be welcomed aboard by them now.

 

Imagine how I felt when I got the Info & A-OK to post. Ten hours later, there it went Live, but at that moment, my laugh was . . .

A Thousand Clowns is a great flick, but made nothing but noise on this truly Heavy Metal thread. Just picturing the whole real chain of events & very real discoveries going full circle for nearly half a century right back to Ing. Mauro Forghieri was in itself already enough to make me giddy. Imagine the true homecoming at the centenary event, in a place where I'll use this word once - passion - will be in the air along with exhaust fumes.

There's that and so much more in that pic, too. They, along with their comrades in arms, wrenches & panel beaters have the truest sense of not only what blood, sweat & tears 0846 has revealed, but proven that he who laughs last, laughs longest.


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It would still be nice if Jim came back to FChat and told us the story...

 

That would be great, but he has been maligned by the naysayers here so frequently that he has probably had a belly full of their nonsense..

As to M. Forghieri, remember it's been almost 50 years ago that they were doing the modifications on 0846. If you remember his how he described that time to Gordon Murray when they were both judges at a concurs. (I believe it was Amelia Island some time ago), "Gordon, the Dino was sheet....there was never enough time to do anything".

They were doing F1, the P cars and the Dino. Modifications were made as fast as they could and what I believe probably happened is that he finally took some time to look closely at Jim's car, maybe even talked to some of the fabricators if they are still around and then realized "oh, yea, that's what we did to mod 0846 from the P3 to the P3/4..

Thankfully this all settles it in everybody's mind even the "0846 deniers" that we had on here for the longest time.

 

Recall it was actually Sal, that help Mr. G. select the frame, in Piper's barn....

 

I don't want to steal Napolis' thunder but something cool is afoot. I will let him deliver the news.

 

Since Napolis has been away, he has been a very busy guy. Tonight I learned that he was able to confirm that his P3/4 Chassis 0846 is authentic. This confirmation came from Mauro Forghieri, who was the engineer that originally modified the chassis.

Not wanting to steal Napolis' thunder, I was waiting for him to post here. However, he has been away from F-Chat for a while and he texted me tonight to tell me I was free to post the news here.

A piece of history was rescued from the dust bin and restored to its original glory--an Enzo original as he envisioned it. And, we are all better for it.

Here is the link.
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Why am I picking up some kind of under tone in this latest news? Somthing is not adding up here.

 

Agree, I'm sure we would have gotten many more details on how this came about. How fortunate for Jim that Mauro Forghieri is still in good health at 81. Why didn't this happen 5 or 10 yrs ago? Better late than never.

On another note, we're also missing out on the current restoration of Jim's Ferrari 512S Modulo. I see occasional posts on his facebook page, but nothing like the detail and discussion we used to get here on Fchat. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/462521-ferrari-512s-modulo-pininfarina.html Too bad.

 

It used to be wonderful to have someone with some amazing cars wanted to share information, pictures and his experience with us mortals but considering the attacks he kept getting from people who couldn't agree to disagree it is understandable that posting may not be worth the aggro. IMO the thread has become downright civilized in recent times and perhaps a continuation of such behaviour might induce a return?

 

Neat change of events. Congrats to Mr. G!

 

I have written to Ing. Forghieri and he has replied within the last few days that:

1. 0846 does not exist anymore.

2. The chassis modifications shown in the photograph from the 0846 pdf I sent him were not done by Ing. Forghieri's Racing Department.

3. Ing. Forghieri said he has also told Mr Glickenhaus that his department did not do the modifications on his chassis to accept a P4 engine and also confirmed it to Mr Glickenhaus via a statement by Ferrari.

4. Ing. Forghieri said he modified the front end only and very slightly, not the rear end.

5. The car is a P4 but without factory number as per many statements.

6. Ing. Forghieri hopes that nobody can now define Mr Glickenhaus's P4 with 0846 as this number does not exist anymore for every Ferrari expert.

7. If this car was purchased by the English driver (David Piper) the only useful number can be 0003 if he remembers well the story.

8. Somebody tried to repair the distorted chassis with the poor arrangement my photo showed.

9. He did sign the letter to Mr Glickenhaus. However it is clear to myself and others that Ing. Forghieri does not speak/write in perfect English and the wording of the letter is not Ing. Forghieri's?

10. He reconfirmed his letter to me.

10. Somebody else modified the chassis engine bay.

11. Ing. Forghieri said he did not say it was the 0846 car.

 

Can you post proof of this recent communication which clearly contradicts the shared letter above?

 

I have proof.

 

This is getting silly, so now we've reached a point where there are only 3 possible options:
1-Jim is a liar
2-Steve is a liar
3-Mauro is a liar

Jim was always very open about all he did with this car, and he lacks a motive do lie about it....what for? Money? He's got more money than god so, it's irrelevant if his car is worth 30 mil or 10 mil....bragging rigths? Wasn't he the one who bought J6 thinking it was the Lm winner only to later find out it wasn't? He discovered it and went public about it so why would he do the exact opposite now? Makes no sense to me.
Finaly, from Steve's post one might think Jim forged the letter....this is plain stupid, he's got a picture with it and quite frankly why would he expose himself to it?
Steve , you have tried to prove your point wich i respect but with your last post you are clearly calling someone else a liar, and you haven't got any proof to make such a statement.
Finally, why would Mauro lie about it? Because if he sent both letters to Jim and Steve, either he is crazy or someone is lying about it. And i don't think Mauro is crazy and i don't believe he would write 2 opposite letters.

 

WEll, if you do then Mauro just want's you both happy!!!

 

show us! Like Jim did with his letter.

 

Really? Written proof?

Excellent idea!

 

I have emails from Ing. Mauro Forghieri stating what I said he said. I can post them here when I have time. They carry as much weight as Jim's posted letter.