The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

It’s a fact that the site caracterises the car as the real 0846, what is upon all the available documentation not only “allegedly” but obviously wrong. And just this is the subject to be discussed here.

 

Not so fast . . . don't change the subject.

You wrote that Napolis intentionally "faked" the car and that he manipulated information in a sophisticated PR campaign. You claim he knows the car is fake and is intentionally trying to defraud the public.

That is quite different from restoring a car and arguing in good faith that the chassis is genuine.

One is criminal and the other is not.

 

Nobody said the car was “faked”. The car is a replica and nobody had to fake it. But - in good faith or not - history gets faked and manipulated when publicly campaigning DP0003 as the long gone original works car and changing its number with the estoppel manoeuvre, although Ferrari confirmed in writing that this car and number is no more and eventual remains not used to build another car.

 

You are clearly saying that he knowingly faked the cars history in order to claim it was something he knew it was not.

And this isn't the first time an accusation like this has come down the pike, several users have often claimed similar.

It is funny, as people who claim to know the truth say the reason people hide in the shadows is due to lawsuits. But it is accusations such as yours, where I would worry about a lawsuit, where you claim something that is clearly defamation. That is where the lawsuits come from IMO, not from telling the truth.

 

Can you kindly tell me what are the motivation, background and the consequences of the estoppel manoeuvre and switching the car’s number and identity in discrepancy to the sales- and importation documents?

 

If you are talking about Jim registering the car with the NY DOT as #0846, then you are grasping at straws, because anybody can register any car with any VIN that hasn't already been used. The NY DOT is not a body with jurisdiction to decide whether a car like this is #0003 like you claim or #0846 like Jim claims, it has no remit to vet such things as legal claims to ownership in effect, like all such systems. I am not sure what you are trying to accuse Jim of but if it was so clearcut as you suggested in your last post, then why are we still discussing the car?

 

Indeed. No new evidence for or against has been forthcoming for many weeks.

This thread grinds on with 'JG thinks this or doesn't thnk that' posts, speculation and opinion. Few people have done any original research or contibuted real expertise and I suspect that no more than 10% of posts have added to our knowledge.

There are lots of other interesting cars out there to discuss.....

 

Agreed, let's wait what is "coming soon" ...

 

He posted it on facebook, already.

 

Link please as I've searched Facebook for 0846 and found nothing new.
Pete

 

Somebody else should past it. I shut down my facebook the day after the election because of some potential business that may occur with the new administration in SC. (Our governor is going to the UN, and the current Lt. Gov will become Gov and I have a potential issue--so I shut down FB).

Several people here have seen it. Maybe one of them can post.

 

Pete, you might find it on this page https://www.facebook.com/ScuderiaCameronGlickenhaus/posts/

I could not see anything new but there is a post on 11 Nov:

Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus
Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus Full Gold ASI Certification as Original 1967 Ferrari P3/4 chassis N.846 after rigorous physical inspection and through investigation including all chassis welds, tubes, accident repair, modifications made over the years by Ferrari and others, oil cooler, engine displacement, holmolgation stamps on engine heads, FI, gearboxes (P3 and P4), steering rack, stamps on body (tail), etc., etc.,

And a few comments from other posters....

 

I like your "A few comments from other posters". When this detail was revealed on this thread it lead multiple posters to criticise the ASI as being nothing important in this discussion. I do wonder what would be considered important when it goes against someones oft stated position on the matter?

 

Are these really the announced “coming soon” news? However, the ASI certification is on the same level like the estoppel switch of the chassis number for the NY-registration and the – to be very prudent – ‘self made’ and ‘self-applied’ and ‘Non Ferrari’ and not original chassis number plate. All this checked from ASI? And did they also check the ‘Miura documentation’ and Ferrari-statement? More information would be helpful.

The ASI is a most wonderful club but has nothing to do with Ferrari. Nor are they the right organisation for qualified inspection. No wonder that finally *N.846* and not 0846 passed ‘rigorous physical inspection’ what made clear that this document is not worth more than the NY registration. I therefore doubt that these are really the announced “coming soon” striking news. The announcement was made here and this is a fb post.

 

I voiced no opinion, but the FB posters are not, as far as I know, F-Chat members, yet some scepticism is apparent.

 

Is that all there is?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRZZC-DH7M[/ame]

 

I really can't help but doubt the originality of ANY stamps found on this car ("holmolgation stamps on engine heads, FI, gearboxes (P3 and P4), steering rack, stamps on body (tail)") simply for the fact Glickenhaus stamped the chassis "0846" on his own. What would prevent him from stamping any other parts? In addition to that, ANY of these parts could have been tracked down and installed on DP003 over the last 40+ years of it's existence. That doesn't make it 0846 any more than all of the other absurd PR tactics taken to provide provenance a car purchased as replica.

 

Do you think your assumption is a logical one?

Seeing that JG has always been clear that he was the one that added the chassis plate and that it was of his own manufacture?

I mean? Come on man, he is going to be very public that he created this plate then underhandedly fake the rest?

Yet another defamatory statement that JG is fraudulently creating an identity.

Ridiculous.

 

Was the self made chassis number put on the frame with Ferrari's consent? If not, what implication does that have? Just faking history or more?

 

It's reasonable to believe if one stamp was recreated - others were. The assumption you're making is it was only that one time.

In addition, what makes you sure all the other stamps are original to their respective components? Moreover, where has it ever been published or verified that all of the stamped parts found on DP003 were on the car when Jim got it?

 

If he has registered the car in new York as 0846, then an 0846 tag would have to be afixed to the car someplace, in order for it to be legal to drive.

 

It is my opinion that he has been forthright with what he has created versus what he has not.

I think it's a stretch to say: hey since he created the vin, even though he has fully disclosed that, that he also may be faking these and lying about them.

Did he make wrong assumptions about the chassis? Maybe? Did he fraudulently create markings and say they were original when they weren't? I highly doubt it. I feel he has honestly disclosed his beliefs and what is not is original/ of his own manufacture.

 

To me there's a difference between stamping a chassis 0846 to replicate Ferrari's font/label versus using a conventional State Replacement Vehicle Identification Number Plate or simply registering it as a replica using the Piper chassis number in order to make it road legal. One item I'm not clear on is whether or not Jim removed the number DP003 from the chassis in order to stamp it 0846. Was the re-stamping of the chassis documented with photos or some other method?

 

I find it amusing the Glickenhaus sycophants are now the ones threatening to sue.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I find it amusing that you expect people to take you seriously when you openly hate JG.

There is no objectivity in that sort of opinion, or in other words your opinion is worthless IMO.

And BTW if one were to have even an elementary level of reading comprehension, one would realize that I in no way threatened a lawsuit, I merely pointed out that he was making a defamatory statement. In the post where I had actually mentioned lawsuits, I merely pointed out people are worried about lawsuits over telling the truth, whereas they are not worried about them when there are actually possible grounds for them, AKA defamation of character. You might want to go back and re-read what I said champ, so you can try to get it right the second time around...

But by all means, play on with your petty juvenile hate fest.

Cheers