The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread | Page 436 | FerrariChat

The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by El Wayne, Nov 1, 2003.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Very interesting that anyone was bullied and attacked for years if dare questioning the car or Jim, the exact opposite is true now. Basically almost everyone in this thread has been wrong at some point and participated in abhorrent posting behavior, which still continues today by the exact same people on the flip side against the minority.

    continue.
     
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  2. tilomagnet

    tilomagnet Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    308
    Lets face it, if someone other than J had made those claims that he miraculously discovered the missing P car under an assumed replica, he would have been ridiculed and laughed at from the start. Back in the day, when he posted here a lot, he seemed like a cool guy. It's a shame he is clinging on this ridiculous story. It cant be about the money....he's a millionaire or billionaire and he certainly hasnt lost any with his purchase, he did buy a replica after all. And it cant be about his status as collector as he even owns a real P car, too. But he wont man up and admit the story was too good to be true. Thats a shame, hopefully this is never sold to anyone who literally buys into the "history" of the car.
     
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  3. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    goodbye
    #10878 werewolf, Nov 28, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2022
    rob ...

    A couple things have not changed since day one. The burden has always been on the owner, to PROVE his extraordinary claims about the car in question. The "replica" status of the car was not ... IS not ... something that needs to be "proven". In this context, "doubt" should have been embraced as an essential and healthy part of the debate!

    Instead (as you point out), the doubters were bullied, ridiculed and shunned.

    Now that the scales have tipped so heavily in favor of those very same doubters ... they're allowed to gloat a little bit ;) don't ya think? :)
     
  4. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    No, because the doubter heretics were never scorned then the way the believer heretics are now.

    Paul
     
  5. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    I’d love to know what you base that on.
     
  6. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Oh yes the original doubters were scorned, and more, but maybe not so much was publicly visible here. One should also understand just how far back a determination that this was not 0846 was made by internationally recognized experts. But that was not brought up because the group closed ranks to avoid the "and more" of the scorn potential that existed. Yes, I am being somewhat obtuse on that but there is a good reason.
     
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  7. fasthound

    fasthound Formula Junior
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    One of these days, this horse will finally be dead from all the beatings.
     
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  8. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    it is still very much alive!

    BTW, how did it do at Amelia?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  9. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    He’s relegated to display only otherwise he can’t show it which is in and of itself an acknowledgment the car is a fugazi. But he hasn’t eased up any on telling people he owns 0846. :rolleyes:
     
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  10. JSinNOLA

    JSinNOLA F1 World Champ
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    Mar 18, 2002
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    I want to know the insured value...:eek::eek::eek:
     
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  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Don’t you love it!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    What, with a salvage title?
     
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  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    best case
     
  14. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Home built title.
    Insured stated value, $25m.
    LMAO
     
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  15. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Any event with IAC/PFA judging for Ferraris will not accept it for judging. Amelia Island does not have IAC/PFA involvement.
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Hi, I just tumbled on this thread about a Ferrari 330P3/4 from my favourite era.

    What Ferrari has to say about it? I thought they had a service that can verify and authenticate their cars.

    Surely their judgement would be binding, no ?
     
  17. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Understood, but even at Amelia they only allowed it as display because Hagerty knows it’s a replica.
     
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  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    Way way back when all this started.. i remeber a fellow(maybe MiuraSV? or someone else) basicly proved the car was NOT 0846. I believe he was subsequently banned from the thread for a awhile. I would search back and link it..but I suck at that stuff.

    The info he posted should still be in this thread. It was laid out very well with photos..measurements etc. The evidence he uncovered is basicly the reason the car is now considered without a doubt a reproduction.

    On another note..I cannot believe this thread is still going.
     
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  19. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
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    One will typically find a concourse at an airport.

    In contrast, nice cars are often displayed at a concours . . .
     
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  20. Collesano

    Collesano Karting

    Jan 14, 2017
    167
    England UK
    In an email dated 6/10/2005 Joanne Marshall of Ferrari S.p.A. wrote: "We confirm that, as far as our factory records are concerned, the chassis in question (0846) was totally written off in 1967 after the Le Mans incident."

    A letter from Ferrari S.p.A., dated September 29th, 2004, Subject: P3/4 Chassis no. 0846:

    Dear Mr. Glickenhaus,

    We wish to thank you for the extensive dossier you have sent regarding the above mentioned vehicle that as confirmed on our letter dated October 5th, we have examined in detail. The car was built on February 1966 as a P3 version and during its racing period, officially managed by the Factory, it went though several modifications in order to race the 24 hours of Daytona in 1967 as a P3/4. We also confirm that, as reported in your dossier, the car caught fire during the 24 hours of Le Mans. It was then totally dismantled and because of the extended damages detected, the factory decided not to perform any repair and to write off the chassis no. 0846. If some of the remaining components such as engine and gearbox were considered as possible spare parts, the chassis, because of its racing history and the fire damages suffered, was definitively scrapped. Therefore eventual pieces retrieved from the trash container should not have been used to rebuild or to revival a car which was written off, if this is the case. We all would like to see forever these glorious pieces but unfortunately the chassis no. 0846 had a sad conclusion.

    Yours faithfully, Ferrari Classiche, Umberto Masoni"

    Ref. post #4479

    * Post #10477: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148250702/
     
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Many thanks for your kind reply, and the many links you provided.

    I will take me some time to digest these comprehensive informations.

    All the best.
     
  22. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    It's still a slightly more favorable claim then me for example stating my Porsche Cayenne is also part Bugatti Type 57 SC Atlantic “La Voiture Noire” because the metal came from a scrap yard near Bugatti's old factory where they disposed of old chassis, therefore the steel on my Cayenne must have at least some of this Bugatti steel albeit reformed. /eyeroll
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    That's not QUITE how it went down. MiuraSV had some evidence that was good, but wasn't as clear or as exact as he presented upon his return later. MiuraSV was NEVER banned from FerrariChat for having a contrarian view about 0846, he was banned because he was an ******* and broke FerrariChat rules, he is still an ******* and has been banned for breaking rules even after the opinion switched in his favor.

    From a moderator perspective all those years we were actually more balanced on our views than the general users. Wayne was very connected to the IAC/PFA world, so we knew early on what the Ferrari historian world thought of 0846. On the flip side we had a couple mods who were Jim fanboys and got played like a fiddle by him.
     
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  24. GirchyGirchy

    GirchyGirchy Karting

    Jan 5, 2011
    67
    Central IN, USA
    IIRC he never called anyone names and simply defended himself while being attacked from many others....ironically enough, as he is verbally in your post.
     
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  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    ...

     
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