The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

The uprights are genuine Ferrari but Ferrari did not cast them particularly for Mr Glickenahus. There is no proof at all of this. Invoices are in the name of World Wide of Cars. Ferrari SpA in Modena were not involved in the slightest in the restoration of this car as Mr Glickenhaus has stated. The engine is incorrect being 3 litre 312 F1, not 4 litre 330 P4, and the transaxle is a replica built by John Hajduk said to be using internals from a 512S.

I do not think the car needs to be crushed either but it could be understood why Ferrari would be justified in crushing it because of Mr Glickenhaus's continued deceptively showing this car as The real Ferrari 330 P3/P4 chassis number 0846, the winner of the 1967 24 Hours of Daytona driven by Chris Amon and Lorenzo Bandini.

 

Elementary school economics, no more no less.

 

So if I call Ferrari and ask them to make xyz part, and call myself xyz, they will do it, just like a corner worker? Powerful stuff there...

 

So says Jim. And under what auspices? Were these parts cast by Ferrari for his replica or are they duplicate consumable parts from his other car that he put on the fake? And what of the period correct drivetrain? It’s period but not correct for a P3/4 is it?

I’m not suggesting it’s not got some value. Just that a lot of Jim’s stories about it and the source/authenticity of the components therein are murky at best.

 

All of you know what I think of Glickenhaus. If you don't, there are few thousand posts you need to read.

However, the car is cool. I talked to the guy who beat the panels. He was a metal artist who had no idea about Ferraris. But Jim paid him insane money to make the panels. I know it is not a real Ferrari. Please let's not go there. Please. But as a car? If I had a lot of dough. Where else can you find a street legal car that looks like a P4? I don't have a clue how much it is worth. At a certain point, that no longer matters. It is a cool car.

 

Timothy, to be precise in terminology: the car is no fake but a real Piper replica but the story behind it is pure fake, and being a replica, the car is no Ferrari product but Piper's creation with a mix of Ferrari and non-Ferrari components. This has to be distinguished and generally understood.

Piper’s creation is neither a toolroom copy, because it has no 4 litre P4 engine, but a 3 litre 312 F1 engine and unsound nonFerrari engine mountings, and why the late Ing. Mauro Forghieri called it the “ … falsa P4 di Glickenhaus”. And Ferrari had confirmed in writing that no car and number 0846 exist anymore. The authorities had spoken and what more could come? All that forms a good story.

Unsound engine mountings aside, DP0003 is a great car and was made famous on FerrariChat and other Ferrari circles, as has been pointed out, first by @lgs and by @tbakowsky above. And its build quality is certainly outstanding compared to the best replicas such as those by Norwood or Foreman, and the car is certainly worth more even without its fame and notoriety. But over 20 years a clever marketing formed – not as intended the real 0846 – but a unique story and a car in its own right and has made DP0003 the most disputed and famous replica in the Ferrari world.

How much additional value this fame and notoriety could add, is a question that only the market can answer. But I agree with @tbakowsky that many cars are bought simply because of the story/history behind them and DP0003 has a lot to offer.

 

A spot confusing if I may say so.

Disclaimer:

This statement, due to the litigious / controversial attitude / walking on thin ice of this thread, and related observations, it does not cater / troll, spam,
to anyone in particular, politically, religiously, sports teams, sects, or anything else that you may relate to, and potentially find abhorrent / offensive in its content.

Regards, Alberto

 

If you had read at least some of the thread, rather than jumping in with both feet without reading any of it, you would understand the pure fake story behind the claims made for it being the original/real Ferrari 330 P3/P4 number 0846.

 

Patience, dear Sir.

I did not request your kind reply. Only an observation on my part, if I may be allowed to say so.

Patience.

PS. Same disclaimer as before.

 

Seriously, have you read this thread?

 

This caused me to re-read the first few pages of this thread again... it's too bad the images are gone. But it's fun to read!

 

I started out as big fan boy. Then, then, I realized the truth. Frankly, it is a sad story. If only, Jim had accepted the truth, but he is incapable of doing that.

Onward and upwards.

 

We were all young and optimistic at one time.

 

Seriously, I have read it, not all, and when photos were there. There were parts that were very interesting, some rare, other medium rare, other too well done, or charred to a crisp.
War & Peace was more amusing, but we did have Cliff Notes. Here, none were available.

The thread, became annoying and frightfully boring / dreary when it became a theory of " I know more than you", and the soapbox became a TEU.

I dare say, I even corresponded with Mr. Stronzo, (the soubriquet awarded him at Villa d'Este), he was fairly polite, a spot standoffish, at times . Never impolite or intolerant to extremes as other...
Most odious at the Geneva car expo.

I never took notes, for instance, there were mostly issues that I could not care less about, i.e.
"the car is no fake but a real Piper replica but the story behind it is pure fake, and being a replica, the car is no Ferrari product but Piper's creation with a mix of Ferrari and non-Ferrari components."
The Bard, is rolling in his grave.

Those points were absolutely of no interest. I liked the mechanical /resto. aspect, fake, etc. or not, as I am involved in restoration, and this thread was instructional, whether fake / replica / wannabe / unreal / repro /
surreal / cubist / kitsch.

Or, " was it ever Classiche Certified ?" . That point reached the crux of impoliteness from a knowledgeable (?) yet unforgiving, relentless, and pedantic, character . Even Lenin was more polite, and Gramsci way more intelligent.
Bug me, and I have a tad of unforgiveness as a few of you may know.

So, in a nutshell, I did read it.

Usual disclaimer.

Regards, Alberto

PS. Comments as:

"If you had read at least some of the thread, rather than jumping in with both feet without reading any of it, you would understand the pure fake story
behind the claims made for it being the original/real Ferrari 330 P3/P4 number 0846."

Are totally uncalled for, and verrry boring.

 

What ever happend to EL Wayne?

 

For a long time he had stepped away and I believe the reason was pretty simple: life (and/or work) just got pretty busy. (As a reminder, mods on here are volunteers). He's been around some of the time more recently but I suspect that his overall status may be more of the same (busy). Just my guess.

 

Has the time come to move this thread to the recreation section?

 

I say forcibly retire the thread until some actually new information becomes available; recently all posts are re-hashes of old news, and with no news people are just being....people.....

 

I disagree. This thread is about a real Ferrari that existed with serial number 0846, and deserves to be in this section. There are several posts regarding a replica but removing them from this section to the replica section would make both threads a confusing mess, not to mention the herculean task that would be doing so in the first place. There is more pertinent info in this thread about the real 0846 than anywhere else on the internet or elsewhere.

 

This, however, I do agree with.

 

HERE IS MY EDIT-

My reason is that while this thread purported to be about 0846, we have now known for some time that the car featured in this thread has zero to do with 0846 and is the ex-Piper replica that was later 'improved' by the current owner.

That said, you make a great point that there is more info contained in this thread about the actual 0846 than perhaps anywhere else on the internet.

Finally, the mods will never move this thread (or, I think, lock it) for the reasons they have given a number of times in the past when the subject has been brought up.

 

Please see @El Wayne's thread starter post here which explains exactly what the thread is about and from which is below:

So the thread is not a debate specifically about a real Ferrari that existed with serial number 0846, as you stated, but is actually a debate about whether the 330 P4 replica project Glickenhaus had purchased from David Piper actually contained the remains of Ferrari 330 P3/4 0846. as @El Wayne stated.

Mr Glickenhaus never proved his car contained the remains of Ferrari 330 P3/P4 0846 so should have been initiated from the replica section, not in this section here. But there is now sufficient proof/evidence here that his car does NOT contain the remains of Ferrari 330 P3/P4 0846 and is just the replica he bought. However, there is much information about the real Ferrari 330 P3/P4 0846 in this thread.

 

I still think the thread is in the correct section, only about 34 pages away from where it should sit.

 

Hi Wayne!