The one thing you learned/did that made you faster?

The thing about being on the edge and staying there is, to be fast on the ragged edge we really can only make small changes and get away with it. If we are making big changes to anything, then we are most likely correcting mistakes, slowing down, widening the line, behind the car, or any combination thereof.
Pretty much by definition, living at the limit is about being able to make ever so small changes in inputs and those changes having an effect (no matter how small or subtle.) If one is making big changes with little to no results, then they are either so far over the limit that sliding is occurring, or so far under the limit that the dynamics of at-the-limit driving simply haven't come into play yet.

Where experience/talent/(insert your approved description of great driving ability here) comes in is when we can accurately predict an outcome of said small changes and use them as tools - not corrections.

That's what I love so much about this sport! There's always room for improvement, something to learn, and I know of no one who gets everything absolutely right every time. Heck, I don't know of anyone that can get absolutely everything perfect for even 1 lap! Not even Schumi! As I say in classroom: The difference between a good driver and a great driver is a good driver knows when they've made a mistake by the results showing up and does what needs to be done to compensate after realizing it. A great driver knows so far ahead of time that they've made a mistake and what said mistake was that their correction takes place even before there's evidence of such to alert them of it - correcting even before the car let's them know about it.

Ok, now I'm just running on and on...
Apparently these couple of days at my desk are providing me too much time - or distraction, which is certainly the case yesterday and today, albeit it a GREAT and FUN distraction from what I'm supposed to be doing. I just love this stuff!

Sorry for babbling on incoherently...

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Facilitator, Pro-Driver, Instructor & Coach
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

You don't know what you're missing!

lighter, faster, more responsive ... your T1 will seem downright sluggish.

repairs and maintenance are cheaper and easier. operating costs are lower.

not so dangerous as you might think at the speeds we reach (amateur level). i was just recently in a 100 MPH shunt, walked away without a scratch. car was DESTROYED unfortunately.

"track days" are difficult though ... even if the group would allow it you don't want to be on track with cars weighing 2-3x as much and the top of your car comes under their fender line.

 

Hey,

Firstly, many thanks from me also for posting - Some enlightening comments, thanks! However, I am going to question:

I believe that at least some of the pole laps he, and others (Senna, Suzuka from the F1 onboard DVD springs to mind) laid down were as close to perfect as it's possible to get..... IIRC, he occasionally said "the lap was perfect"....

OTOH, while Senna's pole mentioned above was *crazy* fast, he "simply" grabbed it by the balls and threw it around - Probably not a "perfect" lap in the context we're discussing here? [and, of course completely impossible for mere mortals.....]

Also reminded me of a Schumi quote - Something like: "The car talks to me. In the rain it only whispers."

Cheers,
Ian

 

I think I agree with you

I am definitely a believer in smoother=faster and like to think I am very much a quick, smooth, finesse type driver. There are two parts to the equation however; the driver and the car. The goal is for the car to be reacting smoothly and cars do nothing instantly as there is always some delay in response. There are times at the limit where my inputs are perhaps a bit thrashing because that's what it takes to get the input in fast enough to account for the delay in the car's response. I do believe this only applies to situations that involve large levels of transition however. My datalogging and in car video supports this. My data shows smooth beautiful traces operating around peak friction circle limits with aggressive but smooth transitions and the in car video shows me constantly fussing with the wheel. Once you're really dialed in and your perceptive abilities are finely tuned you become aware of many tiny nuances you weren't capable of sensing before. You deal with these nuances by adding tiny inputs. The key is tiny. If you're really sawing at the wheel and the pedals then by all means "you're doing it wrong".

I've transitioned from door slammers to open wheel cars and came up to speed very, very quickly. I'm convinced this is so because I am smooth. The open wheel car rewards finesse far more than any door slammer is capable as the door slammer does not have the response abilities. Because the open wheel car has such high levels of response my inputs overall are smoother than in door slammers. This doesn't seem to agree but it's the best description I can think of at the moment.

 

There is no perfect. I was in a car with a student just a few weeks ago. I had just taken him for a spin in his car at what I would consider 85% and he was completely beside himself. "Man that was perfect! Just insane! I never knew my car could do that! You've never even sat in it before and you just went out and blah, blah, blah..." The point I immediately made to him was it was not perfect. There were any number of things I knew were not perfect but he's incapable of noticing them. The difference is how quickly I am able to perceive when I am not operating at the point of "perfect". I realize my mistakes far, far sooner and so can correct them far, far earlier with far, far tinier inputs. Maybe it was perfect to him but I knew better.

 

I really appreciate the responses to FBB metaphorical question about "Smooth and Fast." As perhaps the most rank newbie here, I was too intimidated to ask. (It kinda like being in the boys locker room as a kid and wondering, sum*****, that guy is huge!) So a tip of the helmet to you, FBB.

I can do smooth and slow, i.e., running at 8/10s. I can do jerky and fast, at least for a little while. However, this whole smooth and fast thing was starting to rattle me.

Running smooth and slow in a spec class where everybody else is running at 10/10s means that the best you can hope for is not to get lapped.

Running jerky and fast wears me out, and I go even slower.

After reading the responses, I'm thinking that the key is confident and fast. Instead of the car driving me, I should be driving the car. If I ask the car to do things that it can't do, it will bite me on the butt. But, if I listen to the car and know what I want it to do, I should be able to put it all together.

For example, I once played lead/follow in a SRF with a guy who was a SCCA champion. He was doing things in that car that just blew me away. Imagine going into a carousel in 4th gear without lifting. Midway thru the turn, he lifts and brakes, and the car goes into a full-lock skid, from which he recovers and then hauls ass.

I now realize that he was doing this deliberately. It wasn't a surprise. It wasn't a mistake. He had just figured out how to pick up time in a situation where everybody else was willing to motor along.

Your thoughts?

Dale

 

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? I have only raced at VIR once (in fact, it was my first ever race), and I found the whole T-14/15/16 intimidating. I realize that you need to exit T17 (cowpens?) going as fast as possible. But I felt like I was on eggshells going through the whole downhill roller coaster. I knew I was losing time by holding back, but I didn't want to overcook the entry into T16.

Are you saying that you need to brake hard or just lift a bit at the crest of the hill at T14 and then roll on through T15?

Thx, Dale
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Carbon, I want to caution you against practising race craft on public roads. Driving 7/10s on the street is exponentially more dangerous than driving 10/10s at the track. Everybody I know who races tells me they have become slow pokes on the street. In fact, many of em have sold their stupid-money street cars and now drive trucks, as in vehicles that can pull race car trailers.

Also I have a simple answer to your understeer question. The next time a local track has a DE day, check into renting a spec miata. Around here, you can do this for under $500 a day. Then find a fast corner that has a LOT of run off space. Next, wind that puppy up as fast as it can go in 4th, which will be around 115 mph. At what you are sure is the last possible second before you will die, slam on the brakes, hard. (Later, you'll learn how to threshold brake, but that's another story.) Now, turn the steering wheel. Surprise! Nothing happens. You are now in the understeer zone. It is like driving on ice. The car can't turn because the front tires have zero traction.

If you don't do anything, you'll end up going straight into the gravel.

If, however, you back off on the brakes, something amazing happens. The car starts turning. Easing off the brakes, shifts weight back on the rear tires and gives the fronts more traction, so they can turn. This is trail-braking oversteer. It is really cool once you get the hang of it.

BTW, what I just described is the entry into T2 at Laguna Seca.

Dale

 

Not quite. You forgot to mention the thought going through your brain, "OMG OMG OMG I am NOT going to make it ... HELP!!". Then the car starts turning and you make it.

 

Chuck - We do something similar to this with customers in their sports cars and exotics here in CA. A group of us with pro racing experience and coach for a living (with skip barber, private clients, etc) host these type of events a few times a year. Private events with fundamental exercises, one-on-one coaching, quality track time, etc... We should collaborate on a program in the near future.

Robbie Montinola

 

robbie - it would be fun to have a national roving program visiting MMP, RA, Sebring, Monaco -- no wait, scratch that last one.

 

Ah, yes, the turn of many sudden deaths.

What's wild about T2 is that if you don't push it to the max on the entry, you get bored on the exit as you realize that you over slowed, again. Done correctly T2 is trail braking oversteer followed by trailing throttle oversteer. In the Skippy MX-5 cars, we were plowing all over the place (including the gravel. Did you know that it is possible to fill a tire with gravel?). But watching the Skippy guys do it in the formula cars was poetry. I once asked Randy Buck what he used as a reference point for his entry. He smiled and said, "nothing." He just keeps looking further up the road.

Dale

 

In CARS? Probably braking later, took a few sessions for me to go from being use to karts to cars with brakes. Karting you can throw your body around and really make the kart move that way, with a car it's not as easy lol.

 

Well, I doubt going to full lock up pretty much anywhere is going to be fast (fun! but probably not fast) - my guess is he wasn't in lockup but I don't know, I was not there. My guess is he did a big lift to pitch the car into a 4-wheel drift to make the straight at the exit of said carousel turn a little longer because the car was already pointed that way as the drift completed and he's already BIG on the throttle. This results in somewhat of a rubberband effect catapulting one out of the turn. It's a Rally technique mostly but I use it (sort of and very subtly) in T5a @ VIR Full/North. Messes with people's heads, including the flaggers but it really works nicely. Where everyone else is doing lift then turn, I'm doing turn then lift... The margin for error on this move is usually pretty low... get it wrong and you're sliding big resulting in slowing greatly (and tires/Armco @ VIR 5a) unless you are well ahead of the car and know when the results are going to show up. It's about timing.

The other possibility is your SRF driver simply made a mistake (it happens to all of us) in a high-loaded area, slid big, caught it, and motored on quickly.
My question is - did this person do this same move in this turn every lap or just that once? If every lap, it better be a sprint race 'cause tires don't last long in those conditions.

First off, don't feel rained on; T14-17 IS intimidating for EVERYONE until they get used to it and learn one of the good lines through there. Who wouldn't be intimidated at first? It's 137' negative elevation change with 4 (5 by the track map) turns in it, all in about a 1/10 of a mile!!

Anyway, you should be on the brakes hard coming into 14 (Roller Coaster) at the top of the hill, as you should be hauling the mail coming off the back straight (or even on North Course configuration, you should enter 14's braking area fast & full throttle.) The apex area is a large patch more than a point and you want to carry braking (trail brake) deep into the turn to keep the nose planted. As you exit 14, unwinding the wheel, start building throttle. If 14 was entered and apexed correctly, 15's apex should just come to you about the time the wheel is straight. If you have to steer to it, you've not done 14 optimally. Done correctly, ignore 15 as it will work itself out - just keep dialing in leftward steering angle gradually and smoothly to enter the straight that lies between 15 and 16. Here's where there are several working lines and I could give you any number of scenarios that are fast, efficient, and protective. I will give you the most common line that keeps you from being passed (in the turn complex anyway) and gets you through there quickly - and pretty much in line with everyone else. You have to TRUST what I say here. If you fall prey to pucker factor, then it will only compound because the car will not feel planted.

In the straight prior to 16, do a big lift from full throttle or even brake (MANY people feel they HAVE to brake here) in a straight line, perhaps carrying a hint of trail braking into the left bend that is 16. Some use left foot braking to avoid coming off throttle, especially if they've done a shift in the 15-16 straight. Anyway, the lift/brake is more to set the nose on the downhill than it is to slow the car - to get bite for the turn-in. Immediately start feeding throttle back in and cut across to the left hand side of the track, taking a sizable nibble out of the curbing that is 16 if you're car allows curbs. Hang left until you reach the end of the curbing and then bend the wheel to the right. You should still be BUILDING throttle significantly here - thus the increase in pucker factor.

Again, in 17 get on the curb. In fact, if your ride height allows, get all up on that bad boy. There's an on camber sweet spot that helps flatten that turn if you are up on, and even better - straddling that curb (inside tires in the dirt.) Still feeding throttle. Steering angle for 17 should be set and if done properly, the steering wheel should not move until you exit 17a into the front straight. Any angle adjustment needed (done right, you won't need any) should be done with throttle or dare I say it, left foot braking (but that's BIG.) Between 17 and 17a you reach the end of the downhill and the car gets smashed into the ground giving you BIG, HUGE grip - THROTTLE!!! Since the front end reaches this point first, if you wimp out and don't stay in the throttle, you WILL be moving the steering wheel to compensate for a very unfriendly rear end. So PLEASE - stay in throttle. In fact, at this point one should be approaching full throttle, if not already there.

Again, done correctly, the apex of 17a should just arrive and you should not have to work for it with either wheel or throttle steering. The object is to go fast through here... Doing so makes it work better, not worse.

There are other, even quicker lines through this section but I have found that pretty much everyone needs to master this one to confidence before taking on anything else as my other lines through there are MUCH more aggressive and have MAJOR pucker factor with dire consequences should something be done incorrectly. To give you an example, I was coaching a fellow classroom instructor there at a time trail last weekend who was ready for said faster line. He drives a race prepped Honda CRX - a relatively (actually 'really') LOW powered, FWD machine. When he even reluctantly used my more aggressive line through there, he cut 1.23 SECONDS off his segment time there. But he was scared $#|+less the first few times through. So such a line is not really a starting point for driving that section...


As for T2 at Laguna - I'd agree with both you and mousecatcher, save for the sliding part... not so efficient that. T2 is high speed fun for all and the mental challenge is much larger than the physical challenge - kinda like Ts 14-17a at VIR! LOL

I hope this proves helpful.

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Facilitator, Pro-Driver, Instructor & Coach
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

I would very much like that and want to talk. I'll PM you, if you don't mind.
Thanks!
C

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Facilitator, Pro-Driver, Instructor & Coach
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

My very first piece of instruction from my very first time behind the wheel in any sort of high performance driving. I'm into a big sweeping turn, the front is already pushing greatly and I realize I'm slowing down so I'm on the gas trying to make the car go fast again. Classic mistake The guy in the right seat asks "The car isn't going where you want it to, so why do you want it to get there sooner?" That's always stuck with me and now I find that line very humorous.

 

one thing i did to go faster on the track...I bought a faster car!!!..LOL
went from a 190 MPH car...to a race GTP car @ 225MPH...LOL

 

Hehe...

Wanna learn to play well with it?

heheh...

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Facilitator, Pro-Driver, Instructor & Coach
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

I would love to do that! Yea, MMP, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sebring, Mt. Tremblant, VIR, Laguna Seca, etc... We'll have to plan that out for 2010

Not sure about utilizing a TTO in T2 at Laguna, what we teach at Skip is to get trail brake rotation mid-corner to point the car at the 2nd apex, which should set you up to go full throttle earlier (preferably at the 2nd apex). At no point you want to TTO because you just loose time. If you look at our data from T2, you won't see a "coast" there... but as soon as we release the brake pedal, we are on a maintenance throttle before rolling to full throttle.

Robbie Montinola

 

Chuck - Your dissertation in Post #89 concerning predictively pushing the front tires over the limit of adhesion is clearly spoken. Can you comment on the effect of driving in wet conditions on this approach and what adjustments a driver would need to make? It seems to me to be an opportunity for the unwary to make a huge mistake. The tires will have a lower maximum coefficient of friction in the wet and the tire's grip vs slip angle is going to fall off more quickly as well. So, turning into the corner you would need to turn the front wheels more to develop the required forces to get the car to turn in; would you need corresponding larger inputs to push the tires over the limit of adhesion? My concern is with the rear wheels - if they are at or very near the limit of adhesion they could very quickly develop huge slip angles and the car could spin. As mentioned in an earlier post - the car will only 'whisper' in the rain rather than 'talk'. Are there any other sensory inputs that can be utilized to reduce the risk of a spin? Thanks.

Gary

 

Gary, great topic extension!

In the wet, there is less coefficient of grip/traction - no doubt. It's not so much that we dial in bigger inputs to get the front tires to develop needed turn-in as much as it is we subtly turn-in sooner (and more smoothly) in the wet. In fact, we do pretty much everything sooner, slower , and more smoothly in the wet - in a perfect world, that is.
Everything, as you said in reflection is more of a whisper. So obviously, our driving style has to change in the wet. Just like a heavier vs. a lighter car, everything slows down in responsiveness in a wet/limited grip situation so we have to compensate with our inputs to adjust accordingly. This means being willing to explore the limit of grip sooner, regardless of velocity.

As for the rear tires (good call), they too suffer from a lower coefficient of traction and as trailing tires, they can become victim to a pivot point created by an understeering front tire that suddenly gets more grip. This usually goes beyond slip angles really quickly into an outright skid (which is slip angles on steroids, right?) So we have to be on our game, keep our eyes where we want to go and be ready (expect it) at every turn. The main sensory inputs that we can use and develop for properly correcting such at-the-limit driving are of course our visual acuity (eyes down range where we want to go but peripheral vision giving us much more dramatic clues as our immediate surroundings will seem to move much faster than those far away), our kinesthetic (feel) ability to pick up changes in acceleration on pressure points around our body (I have less lateral forces acting on my right side and I am still mid turn - something is sliding...), and lastly our inner ear and sense of balance. This last one works in cohort with the kenisthetic system to give us information about how drastic changes are occurring and when they are initiated. For instance, our brain wakes up to the fact that we are rotating (back end sliding laterally) because our inner ear and CNS/kinesthetic system tell it that our upper torso is orbiting our ankles and feet. Combine this with the faster visual input of the world moving around us and our brain discerns 'skid'.

How we respond to this information is where the real training comes in - staying calm, breathing, and initiating proper responses over impulse reactions. When we start learning to expect and even induce such situations, we practice and hone the calmness and cognitive skills to respond correctly. This is a really long an arduous way of saying 'seat time is your best friend' - especially on a skid pad, if you can get it.

When you're not in the car, practicing balance and balance arts, eye stretches (especially those involving the rods and peripheral vision system), breathing, and kinesthetic feel (eyes closed, where am I being touched and with how much pressure?) can really help you be better prepared when you are in the car. In some of my clinics, one of the drills I do is have the 'subject' ride in the passenger seat while their partner drives, and the subject has to recite where on the track the car is at any given moment; relying only on memory, kinesthetic feel & inner ear, and sound to tell them where they are.

I also recommend (much to some drivers' chagrin) Tai Chi as a practice art, as it works on the balance system, calmness and breathing, mental focus, and physical fitness. I've even done some work coming up with specific Tai Chi forms that focus on the driving physique (what I've dubbed 'Drive Chi' LOL) to drive this point home (pun fully intended) while working muscles used in driving. I haven't developed full forms yet (like the 'Short Form' and 'Long Form' in Tai Chi) but have considered doing so. Anyone here wanna help with that?

The point is, there are indeed things you can work on when outside the car to help you advance when you are inside.

Sorry for the overly wordy post (very late, tired and not thinking succinctly right now) and I hope this answers your question / helps!


Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Pro-Driver, Coach, Instructor & Facilitator
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

Wow, I missed this thread.

For me, there isn't just one thing.

Top of mind is good old Capital D Discipline. Discipline applied to every aspect of my driving, in an out of the car. Everything.

As Seth noted earlier in this thread, you can't ever stop learning in this game.

Where I learned to get my head into the proverbial "zone" *RIGHT NOW* was in karting. That season of karting was the best thing I did for my mad race skillz.

 

Don't believe anything you hear. Most people are full of crap.

 

Chuck - Thanks for the further enlightenment. All that you have mentioned is covered by Ross Bentley in his book Inner Speed Secrets, but you have pulled some of the individual concepts together with your description and made it more clear. I guess that proves the idea of getting coaching from more than one source!
I like your idea about Tai Chi forms for the driving muscles. Physical fitness hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far - maybe people take it as a given. There is no way someone can push a car at its limits for 1/2-1 hour or longer without a good fitness level.
Thanks for the clarifications.

Stuart - Huh? Are you sure you didn't mean to reply to another thread? There's no 'crap' in here as far as I can discern.

Gary