The passion has changed

You da' man, the Ford GT is awesome!

 

Thanks, I think the original GT40 is like its competitor the Ferrari P4 and maybe the Porsche 917

While the Ford GT is more like the American version of an Enzo

 

well done! love it ! more impractical than any car we own except the f40, but what the hell !

 

Completely agree about turning back the clock. No question it was a different era. And the Porsche isn't the only car that was a lot lighter back then. A race-prepped Mustang GT350 tipped the scales at @2,800 lbs. But it, like the Porsche, was a death trap in waiting. Driver safety was an afterthought if it was any thought at all.

I wholeheartedly disagree, however, with your assertion that a modern GT500 and Porsche GT2 RS share anything but the most superficial similarities. And you cannot with a straight face imply they drive ANYTHING alike. Sure, on paper, each offers similar levels of measurable performance: in a word, INSANE. But to actually drive them? Two entirely different demons.

And, yes, I appreciate your point about the Lambo being cross-bred with Audi parts. But, is that ALL bad? That the air-conditioner actually blows cold air when you turn it on is a plus in my book, eh? Besides, having sat in the driver's seat of the Aventador and having briefly spoken with Valentino Balboni about the development of the car, I can say with some conviction that this car is every bit a Lamborghini were it counts--between its legs ;-)

And are ALL the modern supercars thoroughly forgettable...? Most, yes. But certainly not all: Carrera GT and the Ford GT are two that come to mind. Enzo. McLaren F1. Alfa Romeo 8C, possibly the most beautiful, tasteful, classic sports car produced in decades. Veyron, of course, because... it's a Veyron. Hell, even the Boss 302 LS is a pretty special car if you are into American iron.

What I read from your comments is a lot of... nostalgia. And nostalgia is not a bad thing, but, unchecked, I think it tends to cloud the peaks of the present and the valleys of the past. We dismiss the new and unfamiliar while we forget everything that was forgettable about the past.

Think of the F40. Sure, today it recognized for being a very, very special car. But at the time it was introduced...? Do you remember the hue and cry about the fact that Ferrari's new supercar had <EGADS!!!> a turbo-charged V8 under the hood!? Sacrilege!!!

 

Awesome! One of the best cars to be built in the past 20 years in my opinion. Congrats!!!


BT

 

I've already forgotten all of them, sans veyron. Especially that huge overpriced hunk of junk the 8c.

The carrera gt is quite frankly a goofy looking vehicle. The engine cover is hideous. The interior shares a lot of parts with the 996, and the silly 4" or whatever clutch is a pain to use regularly. The engine sounds good and its quick as hell, but meh. At least it has a stick.

Ford GT...cool looking, ****box plastic interior, been there done that engine. meh.

enzo...paddle shifters, weird interior, not particularly attractive, etc. Again, fast and sounds good, but meh.

8c? god where the hell do I start. Styling is not bad but looks squashed. Interior is miserable for nearly $400k. Engine is weaknuts for a sports car and build quality is quite literally appalling. I would quite literally much rather have a Maser GT-S.

Veyron. This is badass and probably the only paddle shifted car I'd ever want. Its just over the top in every way.

Cars today...meh.

 

The Mclaren SLR is a great and very fast car with lots of road presence and represents good value for money at the moment, can't see it dropping too much further in price either. (in the UK at least, no idea what the American market is like).

 

what?

The SLR was an awful car.

It drives like a very fast truck. Terrible steering, snooze fest gearbox, too heavy, too much understeer countered only by booting the throttle, weird looks, awful interior at the price point.

You could pick up an 06 SL65, get essentially the same performance and better looks for way less money.

Again, pretty quick and sounds good, but aside from that, big snoozer.

 

Congrats, William! Beautiful machine!

 

Very true. And with all the special editions from Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Porsche etc. the first batch is usually "outdated" (strong word, but you know what I mean) after three years...

***

My favorite car era is the 90's. It's what I grew up with. Just enough tech, good reliability, great build quality (for the most part), new enough cars so they look good to me, old enough so I get that minimalist black leather interior typical for those cars.

I am quite, no, very happy that cars I lusted after while growing up are so (relatively) attainable now - that I may actually live out all my fantasies sooner than expected (except for the mighty F50!). I would pay for a new 458 Italia, a used Carrera GT or a used Zonda F if I could, because they pull that emotion cord in my soul. But I would take the keys to a NSX rather than Audi R8, a BMW M5 '88 rather than BMW M5 '12, a Porsche 964 Turbo 3.6 rather than a 997 Turbo S, a 964 RS rather than a 997 GT3, a F50 rather than an Enzo and so on.

But of course, if I succeed more than expected (still got the whole life ahead of me), I wouldn't mind a Carrera GT, a 575 Superamerica++ Lots of cool cars, but I prefer yesterdays news. And I am happy about it.

 

I have gone the other way. Growing up, my father had antique cars (1913 Cadillac, 1912 Ford,1906 Moline, 1939 Frazier-Nash BMW). I drove them all. Giant pains in the ass. Yeah, they all have lots of soul....way more than necessary, IMO. Give me a car that doesn't require an equal ratio of maintenance time to driving time that starts and runs when I want that won't leave me stranded that has power steering, good brakes and air conditioning. Old cars are like carnival rides. They are fun once in a while, but there's that lingering doubt that you might get killed before the ride ends. No thanks. Been there, done that enough already.

 

Lamborghini "used" to be outrageous? Past-tense? You are kidding, right?

The Aventador is the DEFINITION of outrageous! It is the most highly-stylized, over-the-top, in-your-face supercar currently produced. Nothing else comes close. It causes young women to swoon. Old women to cry. And liability insurance companies to increase their reserves.

Have you forgotten the soul of the Aventador is an all-new 6.5L V12? In an age when virtually every other manufacturer has capitulated to smaller engines with fewer cylinders, power-adders and, God save us, hybrids... Lamborghini doesn't just buck the trend. It says "Va fan' culo!" while it thumbs its nose at Green Peace and the tree huggers!

No turbo-charging. No super-charging. One-two-three-four-five-six-seven-eight-nine-ten-eleven-twelve cylinders producing 700 naturally aspirated, gas guzzling horses belching fire and spewing carbon. Global warming, my ass! We're talking convection oven, baby!

And it delivers. From a dead start under full throttle, it grabs you by the throat and hurls you into your seat, producing 1.6gs in the first meter. Veyron territory. Scary enough to make you forget all about that the little nob on the dash happens to look like the one in your wife's Audi.

 

I know I'm late to the party and I rarely (if ever) post in this forum but the topic intrigued me so I wanted to share my thoughts...

I've worked at our local Ferrari dealer since 1996 and performed various duties; everything from picking up parts to today being the Ferrari brand manager and almost everything else in between.

I'll never forget that first time sliding behind the wheel of a 308gtsi, it was sublime. The car was difficult to drive well, the seating position wasn't ideal and the power wasn't what I expected but it was a Ferrari! It sounded great and looked even better.

The F355 had recently been introduced when I started my career in the exotic car world but I already knew everything about it thanks to my four magazine subscriptions that had given me a glimpse at this modern marvel It was a while before I got a chance to finally drive one of those cars but it was evident to me that Ferrari was ushering in a new era...this car was easy to drive, it had good visibility, not to mention the exotic five valves per cylinder and under body aerodynamics, it had my head spinning! Oh, and the stereo actually sounded pretty good too It's still near the top of my list of Ferraris to drive, I love the looks, sound and comfort of the F355.

Our service department focuses mainly on modern machinery so I don't have a great amount of driving exposure to the classic cars. I've had the honor to enjoy a few select Ferraris from every decade, minus the '40s and '50s and every drive has been a memorable experience but what it has taught me is that I'd prefer to appreciate them from afar, whether it's at a concours or preferrably on the track.

Maybe it's the era that I was born in, I'm 38, most cars since I've been old enough to drive were fairly straight forward and relatively easy to use. I prefer a car that's nice to drive but doesn't require the effort that that 308gtsi (or Testarossa, Countach, etc) put me through...call me a sissy, call me lazy but I think I'd rather drive a 550 Maranello than 365gtb/4.

On the other hand, I do agree that manufacturers have taken away some of the "driving" aspect in order to reap the ultimate performance benefit out of their cars but it's a very competitive marketplace, when one of them do it they all follow suit. The first car that comes to mind is the 993TT vs 996TT Porsche...the 993 was still a bit raw around the edges but an easy car to drive and while the 996 is a better performance car in just about every aspect it's just too refined and not as engaging.

I've got a ton of other views that I'd like to share and as I read what I've typed I see I'm going all over the map with my thoughts so I think it's about time I wrap this up and get back to work!

 

Maybe we should try to identify the age range of folks who agree with the basic theme of this thread and see if that has anything to do with t? I'm 47 and have been following Ferrari,Lotus,Lambo,Porsche since 1977. My interest has slowly dropped-off since 1999. Although I still find new cars interesting... my next purchase will be something that isn't driven by computers.

 

Derek,

There's nothing "sissified" about wanting to drive cars that are not difficult to drive.

Frankly, while I respect everyone's right to form their own opinions, I completely reject the notion put forth by some who say that for a vehicle to be considered a "driver's car" that it requires a driver to really "work" at driving it. Poppycock!

The very best driver's cars are, in fact, easy and natural to drive. That's what defines them as being driver's cars. The Countach, in contrast, has never been considered a driver's car. It was a cartoonishly-styled, musclebound rocketship. Great fun in a straight line, but, heaven help you in the esses.

The 427 Cobra Supersnake is perhaps the most egregious example. It is the demon-child of Carroll Shelby who shoe-horned a 7.0L engine into a car that weighed about 2,500 lbs fully dressed. But Shelby wasn't content with the 500+ HP the 427 generated on its own. So he bolted on not one, but two, Paxton superchargers. Estimated peak HP was somewhere between 800 and 1,000. Shelby built one for his close friend, Bill Cosby, who, shortly after driving his, declared it a death trap and wanted no part of it. Cosby was right. The next owner promptly killed himself in it.

Great driver's cars don't try to kill you. They help you be a better driver, not the other way around. Today's supercars offer mind-bending levels of power and performance, far too much of both to be tamed by unskilled drivers. Thank heaven for the nanny gear.

 

Thank you for your response. Since I don't frequent this forum too often I was anxious to see how people would react to those comments.

I prefer a car that is easy to drive but a car that doesn't drive me.

 

good post with the exception of the countach. That car is epic trash to drive.

No, but it isn't a car that offers a bit of a challenge more interesting than one that you can get it an instantly get 100% of. I consider like a video game that you can beat on the first try. I lose interest in that much more quickly than one that challenges me.

 

I'll take the "younger guy" compliment! I'm older than you.

I suppose that fact may make my opinions about the superiority of the newer generation of high-performance cars seem odd. But I disagree. I have owned, raced, wrecked, repaired and restored dozens of cars dating from the early '60s and up. That experience allows me to compare/contrast cars from various generations without too much prejudice creeping in; without all the "mythology" that seems to surround cars from the '60s and '70's.

Yet, I do appreciate your point about the Countach. In terms of styling, it had the remarkable combination of being both entirely revolutionary and enduring. It was The First of its kind and, consequently, it will always occupy a special place for being so.

The Countach, however, is remarkable due entirely to its styling. As a driver's car, it is a basket case, even by mid to late-1970s standards. Performance and handling problems were evident from the very beginning and never properly addressed. Power, of course, has never been an issue for Lamborghini. Just everything else.

That was until the Aventador. The Aventador not only looks the part, it does everything as well or better than the world's best, including the 458 and McLaren, mighty stiff competition. A huge milestone for Lamborghini.

So, to respond to your point: If I was outfitting a museum, I would choose the Countach. But to actually drive? The Aventador, hands down. The Miura suffers from the same problem. Incredible to look at, Godawful to drive. Even Balboni, when asked about his favorite Lamborghini, the Miura, admitted, "Very pretty, but it didn&#8217;t drive so well. Poor balance."

What makes a car truly great in my book? For starters, it has to drive well. Everything else is window dressing.

 

Quad, respectfully, unless one happens to be a professional driver, very few of us could climb into any of today's best cars and squeeze out anything close to 100% of their capabilities.

Today's cars are more akin to bonafide race cars than they are street cars. The Aventador, for instance, even with the nanny angel sitting on one's shoulder, is more than a handful to drive at the limit. At least one professional reviewer declared it "Too much car for me."

 

true, but even in the last 10 years, you couldn't get the max performance of any high performance on the street anyway.

Therefore, while driving on the street, I like the challenge of shifting it well, hitting good heel/toe downshifts, and working on balancing the car properly myself, not just with traction control.

Its these little things that make some cars long term keepers and others playthings for a short while.

 

Just wanted to see these in the
right order one time.............

 

So true.

My 308, though not fast by today's standards, is still a blast to drive. It makes one-mile round trips to the supermarket fun.

I say I'd like to have a 550, but what's the use of a 485 horsepower car that will do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and 200 mph in a well-policed major metro area?