Something I found on the net.
I think the facts do not weigh in support of historical accuracy. I rread the relevant portions in the Bible and some stuff is completely removed or changed. In particular, they take out any mention of his being Jewish. There's some line in the Bible "Here's Jesus, King of the Jews" - completely removed. Also, the last supper was Passover dinner. Removed. In the movie they make the Roman leader guy (please excuse my ignorance on the subject) very forgiving - he basically says this isn't my decision to make, tells them to torture him or something (I don't remember, sorry). In the Bible, he tells them to execute him, is a lot more forceful and decision-making. This seems like a major discrepancy and important to the whole "who's to blame" question. Finally, in terms of "historical accuracy," the part that's the most bogus of all is that it is always made out that Jesus suffered so much more than anyone else. This is simply not true. In the movie, he is beaten relentlessly, but there were two other people crucified on the same day and of course the movie doesn't show any of their torture, doesn't show any of them being beaten. This is ridiculous. It makes it out, basically, like he's the only one the Romans did this too. That is rubbish. Jesus was crucified just like everyone else that was crucified in the Roman times. The two other people crucified on the same day had the same nails driven through their hands. After a certain slave rebellion, they had people lined all along the apian way, all about to be crucified. So, if we're going to talk about historical accuracy, how about not making out like the physical pain that Jesus went through is so out of the ordinary. Of course it is now, but people back then were crucified all the time.
ZJPJ: I was referring to the accuracy and authenticity of the Bible, not the movie. The statements by others in this thread question the accuracy and authenticity of Scirpture. Movies do take liberties. I have not seen the movie but I understand that there are some Catholic overtones which doesn't bother me. I will see it soon.
Oh, sorry for the misinterpretation! Quotes out of context are the worst. Yeah, I was just saying that I didn't think the movie was necessarily true to the Bible (and emphasized and deemphasized certain aspects to serve the director's purpose in a way that is problematic to me) but when you see the movie I'd be interested to see what you think, since you obviously know a lot more than I do about the subject.
Movies do take liberties ? LOL Historically the story in the movie Pearl Harbor was a joke. Maybe "other" movies have similar issues ? I am sure we can give examples all day.
Family man you are pointless. You went from long paragraphs on the supposed historical accuracy of Jesus and the crucifiction to announcing your three ferraris and Harley. Maybe you should stick to an actual point before announcing that someone missed your erractically moving target. I guess this is a good time to ask...WWJD?
** He died on the cross for you ... and me so we could be set free of all our sins and transgressions.
Not a problem, my son (a youth pastor) saw it last evening and said that it was very powerful. Some things were not true to the text according to him. I will check it out for myself. However, the real message still has to be in Easter not the suffering. Happy Sunday, I just went on a drive through the "Blossom Trail" it was beautiful and the car ran like a gem.
** Our church group went to see it this morning too. Jesus was wounded for our transgressions ... He didn't put up a fight ... He just spoke the truth to all who had ears to hear. The rest of the people never got the point. Unfortunately do not. For everyone who is wondering how much money will be made, the film will top the charts for the most viewed movie this year ... Mel Gibson will make back plenty of $$$ as well. But that is not the point. Money can't by our way into God's kingdom. Jesus said that He is the only way to The Father. Jesus went to the garden to pray. Satan went to the garden to prey. Jesus stomped the serpent and had victory at the cross. Satan lost all hopes of what he wanted and can never have. Power over God. Salvation is something we can all have if we choose it. Like one of the thieves who asked Jesus to save him and Jesus replied " Today you will be with me in paradise." There was more power in this film than anythingelse we will ever witness. The anointing on the actors was phenominal. Upon leaving everyone was speechless ... you will see that when you go. BTW, what kind of Ferrari do you drive?
Hi, it's the Pontius Pilate character I was talking about. I guess the movie has been getting criticism from more than just me for making him pretty forgiving and almost completely protective of Jesus. One thing's for sure - everyone walks out of the theater in silence.
** Yeah and people who aren't living right and serving God will be at their doctor's offices tomorrow getting a script for Welbutrin XL . Two good sponsors ... hope that guy wins the race.
** After the film was over people were departing weeping, speechless and had that dazed look on their faces. I think pastors should have an altar call after the performance for those who would like to repent and change their life. Satan was rambling about looking to see who he could destroy. No leader wanted Jesus' blood on their hands and the Pharasees were under a curse. They didn't realize who they were dealing with. After Jesus died is when they went into their temple and saw it's destruction, then, their eyes were opened to what they had done. Jesus is too powerful. Even though the leaders didn't agree to His teachings and miracles, they didn't want to announce judgement upon Him either. Think about it ... someone is dead and another man touches them, speaks a word and that person gets up and walks away totally normal. That power was unexplainable 2ooo years ago and today lots of church groups find ways of dismissing it as well. Hats off to Mel Gibson's dedication for making this film. It's message will remain in our hearts for many years.
Family Man. The question was What Would Jesus Do? Not what DID Jesus do? Stop dancing around. It's not historically accurate and persons like yourself have more interests in hyperbole than accuracy. Why guys like you even bother attending church is beyond me. Ah well, Jesus loves you anyway.
** Stop being so defensive with your replies. It shows fear in your spirit and that you are unknowledgable in the Word. Read the bible not Newsweek. I am getting ready to watch The Oscars and don't have time to answer you anymore. Have a great life.
FamilyMan Relax brother your not alone. Leave them be. Those that want to hear will. 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
What movie did you see? In the movie.... The Pharisees did present Jesus to Pilate and asked for him to be condemned to death... because he claimed to be the King of the Jews. Also, Pilate asks Jesus if he is king... and Christ replies "my kingdom is not of this world". It was not completely removed as you say. The role of Pilate was also accurate. Pilate did not want to kill Jesus. Not because he was the first roman christian... but because he feared the political ramifications. If he killed him, Christs followers may rise up in rebellion. If he does not kill him, the Pharisees may lead a rebellion. Remember.... 5 days before the "trial", Christ entered Jerusalem in triumph to a huge welcome from huge crowds. He had lots of supporters. The taking of Christ and his trial happened in the dead of night. The Pharisees knew of his popular support and wanted him killed quietly and quickly. Pilate saw no roman laws broken. He tried to pass the problem to King Harrod, but that did not work. Ultimately, Pilate washed his hands of the problem and put it to the crowd.... which at that hour had been hand picked by the Pharisees. I thought the depiction of Pilate was right in line with the biblical history. The scourging Christ received was not normal Crucifixion routine, thats why the other 2 were not beaten so. Pilate had Christ severly beaten because he hoped that would placate the Pharisees and end the issue. This did not work, and so he gave in to the Pharisees. The point of the movie and indeed the entire Christian religion is NOT that Christ was crucified. I agree that lots of people were, the Romans had a thing for it. Its true that Christs was among the most brutal, but Im sure others had it as bad. The difference is Christ was innocent. Not just innocent of any specific Roman crime, but totally free from sin. He sacrificed himself to pay for our sins. The point of the entire movie is in the last 30 seconds. THAT is why we have Christianity. Also.... a quick point to the guys slamming Christianity as junk because of the Inquisition or other atrocities commited in the name of the religion over the past 2000 years: OF COARSE this stuff has happened. Christianity does not free men from being sinners. Man cannot be sin free. Men have and will sin, and they will do it in the name of religions. This is not Gods fault. Its the fact that man cannot be without sin that Christ made his sacrifice: To pay for our sins and free us. Terry
My pastor in church today made an interesting point. He talked about how so many people today say stuff like "Jesus was a great man. He was a fantastic teacher. He was phenomenal leader. HE was a very spiritual man. But the are not Christians and dont believe in the biblical account. Christ never made any claims toward being a great man, teacher, leader or to being spiritual. He did however claim to be the Son of God, sent to earth to die for our sins. So, given this fact what do you believe? There are really only 3 choices given the above stated reality. 1. Jesus was a lunatic who should have been put into an asylum. If he thought he was a diety... he had to be a raving nutcase. 2. Christ was a con-man. He claimed to be the son of God to scam people and thus he was a liar. 3. He was who he said he was, the Son of God. Of coarse, there is another choice if you believe there never was a Jesus and the whole thing is a fairy tale and totally made up. As J Scott has said, thats a pretty far fetched philosophy. To me, saying he never existed is like saying Julius Caeser never existed. AFter all, there is more evidence for Christ. Terry
Was there a Viagra ad on the side of the car too? Seriously, the "Passion" was a great film. However it may be discussed and debated, from the viewpoints of objective theology and history, personal belief or doubt, or from a strictly artistic perspective, Mel Gibson has done again, as he did with "Braveheart", what he is great at - providing a stunning view into the past. No one has a crystal ball - his personal vision had to predominate and that may not be agreeable to everyone. He used the medium of film and digital technology to do what the great masters of the Renaissance did with traditional materials. I have started coming to "Off Topic" on Ferrarichat just to read some intelligent commentary on just about anything going on. For some morning yuks, I hit the AOL message boards, where insults, idiocy, and pure insanity will greet the reader, no matter what the news story or topic. If you want to see some "Trolls", check it out. Personal ramblings on "Passion": Were rank and file Roman legionnaires really drunken, completely undisciplined brutes as portrayed? After the initial shock of seeing their behavior wore off, they seemed cartoonish at times. Somehow, I have this mental picture of the Romans of Christ's time as very orderly people, who would carry out even the cruelest of executions with extreme discipline and precision. The character of Pontius Pilate was very interesting. He made me think of a high ranking Nazi - perhaps very courtly, intelligent, and courteous, maybe capable of compassionate behavior when situationally appropriate, but ice cold and calculating inwardly, and unwilling to step out of line, especially when his own skin was in question. Finally, if Christ's birth, life, ministry, and death were indeed preordained by God, then the roles of all the players were peordained as well and they happened to fall to the Romans and Jews of the time. I mean, how could Christians blame the Jews for "killing Jesus" when the death and resurrection of Jesus are the keys to their salvation? The whole thing about "anti -Semitism" in this movie seems very strange with this idea in mind.
** Viagra sponsors NASCAR races around the clock. Those guys are making a bundle . I wonder if they drive Ferraris ? What would their vanity plate be ?
Honestly i have not read the bible from cover to back. So in the movie what is the "devil" character doing pretty much in all the scenes he was in? The one when jesus was getting beaten, the devil had a funny looking "baby". What was all that and is it mentioned in the bible at all? The ending also when the devil screamed? Im catholic but I havent gone to church in a while so just interested to see what can be facts or actaully based on the book. Thanks. I did think the movie was done well though.
Good questions Lotustt: No, that is not in the Bible. Mel Gibson was using some "artistic license" with the form of the Devil. I believe that a battle was and still continues, between good and evil. The Devil represents evil. Clearly Jesus had many encounters with the Devil and his legions. They are recorded in Scripture. Most well known is the temptation of Jesus at the very beginning of his ministry. I have seen the mountain of temptation in Israel; it is rather incredible and foreboding. Other times Jesus, as well as his disciples, cast out demons from individuals. The crucifixion was the ultimate evil but the result was the ultimate good. Christ overcame death proving his deity. However, that being said, there is nothing in Scripture that indicates that the Devil walked along the road to the hill of the skull (where Christ was executed). You may want to read the Gospel of John as a starting point in your research. The Apostle John was an eyewitness to the crucifixion and Jesus himself spoke to John from the cross. He was one of the inner-circle closest to Jesus. He also lived out his life in exile.
