The Provenance of 0353 AL - 375 America (1958 to 1974) | Page 5 | FerrariChat

The Provenance of 0353 AL - 375 America (1958 to 1974)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 375america, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. kerrari

    kerrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
    23,502
    Coolum Beach AUSTRALIA
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    Karen H.
    Thanks to Lancia and Tongascrew for the replies - guess it just goes to show that for those of us with the right (wrong?!) inclinations, just one glimpse of these remarkable vehicles is enough to send us on life-long path, no matter where we grow up!
     
  2. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 22, 2004
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    Furman
    Ed,

    Thank you for this perspective. Personally I can't stand it when owners of less means, but full of passion get slagged because they have to scrape and save a little to fulfill their passion.

    -F
     
  3. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,690
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Its different now. Back then improvisation was necessary and parts were scarce but not hyper expensive.
     
  4. 375america

    375america Karting

    Jan 16, 2009
    57
    California
    Full Name:
    Scott Fitch
    My apologies to Joni Mitchell...Tongascrew - No curse, just an appreciation for an understanding and receptive audience. The true measure of passion seems to be effort, not necessarily cost. I will be interested to see if anything develops for this car after 1975 other than prices and sales. DWR46's first posting in this thread seems to be pointing in the right direction...I think he captured the passion. If we could only find the driver of the "late 60s Plymouth muscle car" to get his impressions...
     
  5. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
    Staff Member Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 1, 2002
    18,043
    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
  6. 375america

    375america Karting

    Jan 16, 2009
    57
    California
    Full Name:
    Scott Fitch
    #106 375america, Nov 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you.

    Fitch Ferrari Pictures:

    In response to requests for pictures I have attached the brochure of the company in San Diego who has put up with my intermittent scanning requests for the past 7 years. They are now fairly comfortable with determining the correct orientation of scans based on a left-hand drive car and the orientation of the Ferrari emblem (Prancing horse looking left), not to mention a readable license plate. I've decided not to release the digital scans/files because I don't want to get into the photography business and I believe inevitably (if not already!) they will wind up being distributed without attribution. I feel the attribution is important because without the initial effort to acquire and subsequently preserve this information, much of this provenance would be lost. So, if you want a picture, email Cathy or James, note the picture ID and tell them what you want. I have asked them to do two things: 1) add the scanning costs (from $5 to $25, depending on the density) to the price of the photo, and 2) place a copyright notice on the photo (©Scott Fitch 2013) in an out-of-the-way location that will not detract from the image. Depending on how many people want pictures, if this gets too complicated for them (i.e., administrative costs) they may bail from the arrangement. They have not done this before, so it may or may not work out. In the interest of full disclosure, I've asked them to book the scanning costs which I intend to use to have them print some of the pictures in the collection. If you have any questions, PM me (be warned, I still have a day job!) and I will try to accommodate. If anyone else has a better suggestion, let me know.

    Epilogue:

    I first registered on the FerrariForum.net site on July 20, 2002 to try to figure out what to do with the information in my father's files. My brother and I were still settling my father's (and my mother's) estates; both died in 2001 within a month of each other. I figured the first thing I had to do is find out who the current owner was, in order to reunite the information with the car. I had my son catalog the information in a spreadsheet so I could get a handle on what was in the collection. I had not reviewed in depth all the data in the binder and folders, much less the negatives. The only pictures available were the ones that had already been printed and preserved in the collection.
    My first post was on August 30, 2002 and I soon found out that I needed a serial #, and that this was a unique car. On September 3, 2002 Tom Shaughnessy emailed me and told me that the restorer of the car (Wayne Obrey) wanted to know "what price?". Being new to the Ferrari universe, I was reluctant to commit on something I didn't know anything about. Tom mentioned that Obrey had authorized him to act on the behalf of Jack Thomas, then the presumed current owner of the car. He also stated that it was sold to Betz & Peters, Orange, CA. in 1995 then Jack Thomas "about 18 months ago". (± March, 2001.) He restated that the current restorers "want to know the price of the package". Apparently it was believed that there were 2 different nose configurations, and they wanted to determine which configuration they would be restoring to. I replied that I was "not in a position to determine a price for this information at present, nor have I decided that it will be sold". I had also written him that "one of my primary concerns was that this information stays with the Car." He asked if he could view the material, so we made arrangements to visit him in San Clemente. My son and I took the binder up for Tom's inspection on a Saturday a few weeks later. He had his restored Ferrari Auto Transporter parked in his shop (I believe it had just been shown in Pebble Beach), and he gave us a tour of his facility. He took pictures of a lot of the information in the binder (including "Ordeal by Auto"), and entertained us with stories on how he acquired his parts inventory (some from burned Ferrari's in San Diego County, apparently a benefit from back country wildfires...) and we returned to San Diego. I assumed the photos Tom took were sufficient to continue the restoration. Thereafter I would return intermittently to the website to check if any new information about the current owner had surfaced in response to my posts.
    In 2006 I renewed my inquires to find the current owner, again on FerrariForum.net. I had scanned some negatives in the interim, and posted 3 pictures in the forum and attempted to post the pictures in the Registry, but had some difficulty in getting them inserted.
    On January 15, 2009, I again posted seeking the current owner. Granucci (Ferrari Life) was kind enough to shepherd me in my search, finally directing me to contact Marcel Massini. I recall I promised to scan some material to distribute, however, I believe it wasn't until 2013 when I PM'd Mr. Massini, and shortly thereafter I got the response noted in Post #1.
    I am and continue to be impressed with the wealth of experience and information available on these forums, and have a high regard for the opinions, knowledge and the beneficial cooperation of the forum participants. As 0353 AL is the only Ferrari I have known personally, I believe it important that this history be known, not only to memorialize my father's efforts and experiences, but also to preserve the story of the car. It is for that reason I made the effort to scan the information and post to this thread. I am amazed at the warm reception this information has received from those to whom it is important. It is ironic though, after 11 years, that I still do not know who the current owner is, nor where the car is located. The person who introduced me to the word "provenance" also mentioned that there will always be another owner...

    Scott Fitch, 2013.
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  7. 375america

    375america Karting

    Jan 16, 2009
    57
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    Scott Fitch
    #107 375america, Mar 4, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
    Ed - Found this in Post #20 from 0313EU 250 Europa...dated 5/01/2006 from Marcel Massini

    "These pix were taken by Dean Batchelor in 1967 at Fullerton/CA. I own them today, having bought them from Dean Batchelor in 1990.
    Marcel Massini "
     
  8. T308

    T308 Formula 3

    May 12, 2004
    1,008
    Southern Cal
  9. 375america

    375america Karting

    Jan 16, 2009
    57
    California
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    Scott Fitch
  10. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    It's so sad that a car like this should be locked away with an owner that could care less about it. It sounds like it's a trophy car along with the other two hundred cars he owns.
     
  11. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    WOW!
    As an older member of this audience, it actually shakes me up when I see pictures of a bygone era-the cars are only a facet of the panorama captured in these snapshots of this oft spoken, yet bygone era...
    Additionally, they typically evoke comments not normally expected to be considered within normal boundaries of specific posters' typical response profiles-specifically TONGASCREW for example, had it not been for this specific thread, I doubt that he would EVER annecdotally mention attendance, at-of all places-Pomfret Academey!
    Jeez, its been over 40 yrs since I've heard that school's name!{its in a league with Deerfield, Choate, Loomis, Kent, Hotchkiss, Andover, etc The girls, in those days, went to Abbott, MIss Porters, Chaffee, etc, ALL merging with the boys school's by 1968-72 era}

    Hearing Dyke reminisce(sp?) brings me back to a day as a youngster in a 375-when the plugs fouled in 4th gear at 100mph, the oil had to be changed every time(3 4barrels), and the 47 0r 57 gallon tank behind you was less than fluid tight, lastly, the brakes were best described as 4 holes in the floor to thrust ones steel toed boots!
    These pictures really will make this a slow down and remember day for me.

    I got my first experiences with a Lampredi because it was under a tarp, under a table in the "dump room"..With a Bridgeport and a southBend 9" throw along with a Browne/Sharp toolmakers surfacegrinder in the basement since I was 10-12, I always made as much as I needed(they want HOW much for THAT piece of crap!)...because, it was CHEAPER to stuff either a 330 or GTE motor in it-or-even the ubiquitous Buick 215...

    These cars got expensive principally due to ONE thing-in my twisted rearview mirror perspective on all of this: The MONTERY HISTORICS started!
    Within a year cars-street cars-doubled, tripled, or more...oddly, GTOs were the first, followed by the omnipresent 250GT-alloy please...(swb of course)
    The rest is, well, "just plain history"....
     
  12. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,690
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Ah, Miss Porter's
    ;)
     
  13. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
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    george burgess
    Hi I don't think I can remember Pomfret as being an academy but no big deal. I can't compete with old Ferrari V12s in the basement. All I can add is that Pomfret School in the 1950s had certain attributes unique to the others you mentioned.Not only was it near to the original Thompson race track which I am pleased to report is coming back this spring including the road course. We also had a full machine shop in the basement of one of the dorms staffed by an experienced machinest . Though not an official course the machine shop was available to all and produced gocarts. selected "art works" skunk traps etc. and for me a restoration of an Austin 7 two seater cycle fendered special imported from the UK. We also would on race day build what we thought looked like a Mille Miglia check point across the road in front of the school that the cars coming from Thompson would pass thru to get to the Ben Grovener Inn where many of the drivers stayed.A teacher/soccer coach was roped in to drive us in the school bus to Thompson for race day. We chipped in and got a subscription to AutoSport which arrived weekly from the UK but a month late. It's nice to be able to contribute something from "old Days" I enjoy the stories from the old days that appear here from time to time.Let's hear more. tongascrew
     
  14. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    Feb 15, 2008
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    wallace wyss
    I love the whole thread but just have a couple of questions about the early life of the car. I read the early owner references and saw that a Bianca Colizzi owned it first for 4000,000 lire (how much was that then in dollars?)
    Isn't that a woman's name?

    Had he/she commissioned it or did Carrozzeria Vignale merely build it at their own expense as a show car, hoping to find a subsequent buyer?
    Then it was sold to Mr. Chambers for 2000,000 ire (again anybody know how much that was in dollars back then?), sounds like the first owner took a 50% loss.

    The name Harry Chambers sounds so American for Italy so I was wondering if he was a well known person in business there, how he came to be living in Italy?

    I am impressed with the depth of material on this car, from bill of sale, restoration pics, and the work you went to with the pictures.

    Incidentally on the sister car, associated with Princess lille de Rethy, I did a little research on her, was her husband, ex-King Leopold,(who I had previously assumed was her father but she was Leopold's second wife, the first having died in a car accident he had when he drove a car into a lake in Switzerland) actually ordering Ferraris for her to drive or for some reason just saying they were for her and she didn't drive them and didn't give a damn. I got the impression that she liked anything expensive and there was some stink about her selling the diamond tiara that Queen Eliz. gave her as a wedding present...
     
  15. 375america

    375america Karting

    Jan 16, 2009
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    Scott Fitch
    I had the same questions about the first purchaser [see Post #78]. As to Harry Chambers, if you look at the first page in the "Ordeal by Auto" [Post #1 attachment], he was a friend of my father apparently working with Trans World Airlines (TWA) in Italy with him in ±1956. The time line may be a little oblique, but the story about the dentist at least would be a starting point for getting some of the back story. I have no other information on Harry Chambers other than the sales documents previously posted and the narrative in the "Ordeal by Auto". Perhaps someone in Italy is familiar with Bianca Colizzi, and can resurrect some of the details...
     
  16. Lowell

    Lowell Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2005
    1,165
    Santa Fe, NM
    Full Name:
    Lowell Brown
    About $8,000 in very round numbers.
     
  17. 375america

    375america Karting

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    Scott Fitch
    #117 375america, May 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks to the State Historical Society of Missouri which scanned and made the TWA Skyliner newsletters downloadable and searchable (and in the public domain) I attached the reduced summary (hoping it is below the size limits). The last page is especially complete insofar as Harry Chambers is concerned. Seeing his picture makes some of the passages in the "Ordeal by Auto" more understandable. I found some other references to Harry Chambers that suggest why he was involved with Ferrari's in the first place. The photo of the Jaguar and subsequent editorial discussion reminds me somewhat of current forum issues. I have outlined the relevant parts of the pages. I think there may currently be on this forum some pictures and discussion about the car that Fabrizio Serena De Lapigio is driving (something about 6 or 7 bar radiator grilles), but I will leave this for the experts to debate. Only two owners left in the countdown, the Dentist, and Bianca Colizzi.
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  18. 375america

    375america Karting

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    #118 375america, May 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The attached places Harry Chambers at Monza with a Ferrari in 1953. Seems that he was a racing enthusiast. Given that he opened TWA's Milan operations in 1950, and was there for 15 years, and was involved in transporting race cars via Air Freight with TWA, I think lends credence to his appreciation of Ferrari. His comment on Page 2 in the 1959-10-29 editorial in the Skyliner newsletter "I suggest Mr. Pratt check and determine just what automobiles have won the sports car world championships more than any other..." may offer a clue to his loyalties.
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  19. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    He got the Gerald Roush collection.

    Dean Batchelor as well?
    Is it in Dean's books?

    I have that set...
     
  20. 375america

    375america Karting

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    Scott Fitch
    #120 375america, May 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The attached list of books that were in my father's collection (and Ferrari by Vignale by Massini that I obtained last year) are the only published accounts of 0353 and pictures that I have found to date. Perhaps the pictures in Mr. Massini's book are the ones obtained from Dean Bachelor? I'm not aware of anything published by Dean Bachelor that concerns (or shows) 0353.
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  21. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #121 BigTex, May 18, 2014
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
    Those business card collections are FANTASTIC, and represent a "who's who" of the times in the racing world, from Chinetti to TRACO engineering (later with the Penske Sunoco Ferrari 512).....

    Of course, I have to stop and shed a tear at the ad of the San Francisco Buick dealer, selling a Series 2 250GTO, for $13,500. and the 330TRI/LM for $8,500.

    Everyone should look thru those!!


     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    The office building in the background of that one photo "Bond Publishing" was the home of Road&Track magazine, at that time...that would most likely be a Dean Bachelor photo, IMO



     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    This is well said!!

    I think it goes without saying, but now should be, that ALL of us here that have faced a few of the challenges that go with ownership, REALLY thank you for this wonderful view into your Dad's experience.

    It may be easier in today's times to run these cars.

    But we still make plenty of broken parts.
    :D :D :D

    So again, thanks from all of us.
    This very thread may well become the definitive history, because of your efforts.
     
  24. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    That era the Southern California area was home to our aircraft and space exploration efforts, especially in regards to engineering and fabrication. So America's best and brightest, from pure design to fabrication skills, were there.

    It's not an accident in my mind these guys in the air travel sector, and the gear heads that were racing on the dry lakes in hot rods, found each other.

    Most of Dean Batchelor's life, he was between these two factions, if a division existed.
    Find any and all of his published books (Ferraris and Dry Lakes racing) for a great look into this time of history.

    Look at the pictures of that 4 liter Ferrari engine!!
    It was a monster!!

    Only an airplane mechanic, or a high performance engine specialist could have gazed upon such a thing (especially if broken, in a unique and expensive way) without throwing in the towel!!
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Bubba
    Those names he's listing in the "Name Drop" memo were all people who had provided engineering and parts, on the engine.
    (They match up to the Business Card pages you posted)

    It's definitely a "who's who" of the SoCal racing community.
    Most of the car/engine builders for the Indianapolis 500 are in there!

    Meyer Drake was a builder of the Offenhauser engines for decades.
    Iskederian "Isky" camshafts.
    You see Andy Granetelli's name, at the very bottom.

    Those guys all in one room could have built a space craft, anything really.


     

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