Agreed. But also an adapted GTC4Lusso sketch that I think will come close to the actual production model. Although Ferrari has to inovate, they also have to use some mechanical and design features of existing models. Kind regards, Nuno.
I SUSPECT THE FIRST FERRARI FUV HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE 2011 The Ferrari FF created a great deal of controversy when it was announced in January 2011, in part because it represented a break from Ferrari's sports car tradition and also a decisive break with the past. Designed by Pininfarina house the FF (an abbreviation for "Ferrari Four") was a harmonious blend of Sporting DNA and extraordinary usability. Much a family car with a comfortable four-seat interior and a spacious luggage compartment. Perhaps the most radical thing about it is that was Ferrari first car with four-wheel drive. Ferrari's aim in designing the FF was to build a successor to its previous four-seater, the 612 Scaglietti fastback coupé. In fact, four-seater vehicles haven’t been nothing new for Ferrari, but it's clear that the FF's designers wanted to create something more comfortable and spacious than previous models, something that a family of four could use on long cross-country trips. The FF and it's successor the GTC4 represent a story of great success that shows well how Ferrari through technical innovation and superior design was able to break with the past creating a completely new car concept which in fact should have been named an FUV. Will they be able to do the same again with the Purosangue? No reason whatsoever why they shouldn't be and IMO they just have to follow a similar development path to the one that proved so successful with the FF despite of the fact that Pininfarina isn't collaborating with Ferrari anymore. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mário, I agree with your very well written analysis as always. Regarding the FF: indeed it is a wonderful Grand Turismo cruiser. A car to be enjoyed under all kinds of weather and for long distance travels. I believe the forthcoming PuroSangue will have the same character. If so, I hope the market stops penalising mileage on these cars so much. So much emphasis is on mileage when, in reality, these are very reliable cars, an absolute pleasure to drive and easy to maintain. I agree mileage was an issue on Ferraris back in the 1980s for instance, but 30.000km in a 308 or Testarossa was one thing, 30.000km on an FF, F12 or 458/488 isn't the same at all. I for one hope mileage won't have such an impact on depreciation. It would be a shame: we frequently tell people here on FerrariChat to go drive their cars and that no one likes a garage-queen... Only for people to get hammered when they try to sell their car. Another thing I hope and think Ferrari could do to make the forthcoming PuroSangue (even) more appealing: overhaul the Atelier specifically for the car. Maybe that would draw more interest from some prospective buyers. Kind regards, Nuno.
Agree with you Nuno. These cars are there to drive, as it hardly ever will be collectable cars. Other than the Patek Philippe advert, I did not buy my F12 for a future generation My 'lady' has now 80'000km on the clock (late 2013 model) and will not stop to enjoy it (though never went on to a track to search for its limits). So don't care about what the market says.
Another thing would be to have some kind of loaner car or enclosed carrier pick up and drop off program with every dealer. These are cars that will be driven more frequently, perhaps even daily, so they need to be prepared for that.
That's wonderful to hear, William. Hope your story inspires other owners to go out, enjoy their cars and make the most of the Ferrari ownership experience and privilege! Keep enjoying in good health! Kindest regards, Nuno.
Urus set the pace; will have 4 doors and 5 seats (option). Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
The only thing I believe is guaranteed for now in the Purosangue is the last generation of the very clever Ferrari 4 wheels drive system. Other technical aspects of the future car aren't clear at all yet and I'm very curious to see what they will do in the stability department. Will Ferrari follow Bentley's and Lamborghini's route with innovative active roll stability control systems that keep the cars almost flat with the horizon while curving ? Image Unavailable, Please Login
All of it via adaptive air suspension. F is chasing the bull. Sometimes coming late to the party is not a bad thing. IMHO Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.motor1.com/news/299177/mclaren-ferrari-suvs-rendered-supercar/amp/ Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Happy new year to everyone………………. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If Ferrari want to really differentiate themselves from the SUV/FUV crowd I think they should do something more in line with their sporting/exotic/extreme heritage (even though they've never done off-road) and do a Baja or Dakar racer inspired thing albeit more refined and luxurious. Sort of like the Lambo LM002 in proportions.
I agree. I think they should do something that really illustrates a link to racing. As to the active anti roll systems- my understanding is they were both slow to respond and heavy. I think the speed of response has been addressed with the new 48v electrical systems, but they are still heavy. And that's added complexity as well. However, I think air suspension most likely is too isolating, so maybe this is some of the answer because it allows you to decouple the anti roll bars whilst going straight ahead and really tailor the amount of roll in bends. I also suspect it allows the engineers grater control over the contact patch.
Jerry I also agree with what the Ingegnere said concerning the need of a differentiation in the new Purosangue to keep Ferrari's DNA heritage. As you explained so well the new 48V operated suspension's anti-roll systems used now by Audi and other makers have a much faster response and are the future. I drive a SUV that has the pneumatic adaptable suspension but I've never driven a SUV that uses these systems therefore I wonder to what extent is artificial the sensation one feels while curving without roll and always seeing the horizon flat. According with your long time forecast the Purosangue will originate on a lifted GTC4 that is more similar to a lighter cross-over than to a heavier SUV. In this context the new FUV could be a vehicle that is a very fast GT while on the road but does the job of a powerful SUV when is off-road. To accomplish that Ferrari will need a suspension system that is extremely versatile in order to perform it's best in both circumstances and my curiosity is enormous to find out how their brains will tackle that.
Mario for years I drove cars with these systems (BMW) and the engineers can make it so the car feels very natural, or they can make it feel very unnatural. One BMW engineer once told me they decided to see the affect of programming the suspension to lean in the opposite direction it should on a few willing test engineers. Predictably they all got sick, but the point is, the engineers can do it. In 2007 I went with BMW to the Nurburgring for the launch of the M3 and for the Advanced M school and BMW M gave us a tour of their HQ at the Ring. They showed us how they develop suspensions and all the data points they use. I had not really thought about it, I was shocked at the large number of datapoints: I think they said its over 10,000?! We saw a lot of graphs. Maybe it was less- that seems high, but the point I took away from it: these suspensions and engineers are even more advanced than I ever imagined! The suspensions out now are super advanced. Have you seen the magic body control by Mercedes? I wouldn't suggest for Ferrari, but it gives you a glimpse of what they can do when they really go for it. Look at the way the car body stays nearly undisturbed while the wheels are moving about. It's incredible.
Jerry that must have been a great experience at the ring and I presume is something you guard in your memory forever. As an SUV daily user I’ve been asking myself what are the vehicles in this segment that I would select if I was just looking for maximum performance on the road as well as high competency off-road. I came up with the list below where there are four cars and all of them less performing than what we expect to be the future Purosangue . Nonetheless they represent some of the best that exists now in the Cross-over/SUV segment. In terms of performance the Lamborghini Urus seems to be in a different category from the other three and I presume one can say that is the present benchmark. When the Purosangue will be launched at the end of 2021 the Urus will certainly have suffered improvements for better. Based in your forecast that the Purosangue will be developed from a GTC4 , the Cayenne being the smaller of the four on my list, with a length and a wheel base similar to the Lusso, perhaps can give us some clues about the future Purosangue volumetry, should Ferrari pursue this architecture path. Another area where the Cayenne turbo and Porsche are extremely advanced is in the use of PDCC (Porsche Dynamic Chassis Control) that integrates everything superbly. The Schaefflersupplied 48-volt Intelligent Active Roll Control roll-stabilization system can completely disconnect the anti-roll bar, as when driving off road and maximum suspension articulation is desirable and to apply as much as 885 lb·ft (1200 N·m) of resistance to roll during hard cornering. (see link below). The off-road capabilities of the Cayenne turbo are also incredible and the other link below shows how Porsche tests them around the world. That’s a lot of Porsche material for Ferraristas to digest on the domain of the integrated chassis control technology. There is no doubt that Ferrari is highly competent and therefore I’m expecting a Purosangue with a hybrid V8 twin-turbo or a possible alternative V12 aspirated for the purists, with more than 700 Cv at least. In terms of acceleration 0-100 Km anything above 3.4 sec. will be blasphemy. The top speed will definitely have to be minimum 310 Km/hour and preferably more than that which means that a lot of aerodynamic work will have to be done in order to achieve that. My imaginary Purosangue will have to be able to compete with the fastest existing GTs while on the road but off-road will have to show as well capabilities at least as good as the ones evidenced by the Cayenne turbo on the link below. If Ferrari achieves all that, and I believe they will, I’ll be part of the seriously tempted. https://www.google.pt/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj1_P6NpNbfAhUKkRQKHW5iAT8QwqsBMAB6BAgGEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3KWoykLnQXs&usg=AOvVaw0n2kpvtc52SGAq_xwMXlkn https://www.google.pt/urlsa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=2ahUKEwj1_P6NpNbfAhUKkRQKHW5iAT8QwqsBMAJ6BAgGEAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwT6MAyVL9Mg&usg=AOvVaw2f3WTEoOcmIPQQaUampKb5
Fascinating Mario, thank you for taking the time to put all this together. Really very well done. Out of your 4 the only one that is of any interest to me is the Maserati. I'm not really an SUV lover. For some reason I find the VW Group efforts uninspiring. I'm sure they are all excellent in their own way, but they don't speak to me. I think I'd skip all of these and get the Alfa QF. The only thought that comes to mind when I think about all of these, I really think Ferrari shouldn't make something that fits into the mold of these vehicles. It really has to stand apart from this group. I think authenticity is very important. I think that is what's behind the success of Range Rover and the G Wagon Mercedes.
I want Ferrari make that SUV with the 6.5L V12 that revs to 9000 RPM, man this will be the most iconic SUV in the history
I presume Ferrari said it will be available in 2022. If to be available means the start of deliveries there is the possibility that it will be presented at Geneva in 2022 and the first deliveries start by the end of that year. However it could also be launched at Geneva in 2021 and deliveries only start in January 2022. Ferrari is normally so enigmatic about those things and I believe does it on purpose so that we have to guess.
