the results are in, HP #'s from exhaust and highflow cats | FerrariChat
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the results are in, HP #'s from exhaust and highflow cats

Discussion in '360/430' started by KINGS POWER, Jun 5, 2007.

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  1. KINGS POWER

    KINGS POWER Formula Junior

    Aug 3, 2005
    275
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    King
    #1 KINGS POWER, Jun 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guys just thought I would provide a bit of info regarding a much debated subject. Exhaust and highflow cats. Do they work?? Which are better?? What is being used and what am I paying for??

    This is being posted as information, and not to ruffle any feathers, I know there will be some who get upset, but I have been asked numerous times to post my findings, so here it is.

    Exhaust. My opinion, they are all about the same, as they all use the same basic exhaust routing, other than the Keis Sieg which most here do not have or own, so this is based on the Larini exhaust which is on our car.

    Highflow cats. I have found that there are few TRUE catalytic core manufacturers, most all labeled *Brand X* are all coming from the same place, so we investigated this for 2 months to confirm our findings, and purchased these EXACT cores, and built our *G-Cats*, which we used in our testing.

    Sound?? The highflow cats make a HUGE improvement here, the exhaust sounds more defined and full bodied.

    Ported throttle bodies were used on this test of our own design.

    Most typical 360's lay down 316rwhp, this is rated at the tires, NOT the crankshaft. We were able to wring out 339.44 rwhp. This is without tuning the ECU. The net gain is a mere 23rwhp, much lower than what most mfg's claims are, but the dyno does not lie. These numbers are SAE corrected as well and smoothing set to 5 (most conservative).

    Findings: we noticed that the A/F readings seem to be inconsistant, meaning the ECU is constantly adjusting and correcting, this is just a finding, nothing more.

    ECU tuning. I have seen all the *claims*, and have yet to see some real proof. I have been sworn to secrecy about one of the most well know ECU tunes F-Car guys have been buying about making dismal gains in HP. I have been assured that there is power to be had here by a well known ECU tuner in Germany, we will be testing the Stage 1 (claiming 25hp)and the Stage 2 (claiming 43hp) Stage 2 REQUIRES highflow exhaust. I for one doubt these claims, but we will see soon how well they stack up and if in fact they do work, I will keep you informed of our findings.
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  2. Modenafan

    Modenafan F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 19, 2004
    12,069
    Moorpark
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #2 Modenafan, Jun 5, 2007
    I'm sure all cars vary, but I had my 360 dyno'd and it turned 343.7 at the wheels with a Tubi exhaust being the only mod. I don't have any before numbers to compare to.
     
  3. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Dec 7, 2003
    16,453
    Winston Salem, NC
    #3 Ricambi America, Jun 5, 2007
    What size core did you use?
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    May 21, 2006
    7,930
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Ray
    #4 RayJohns, Jun 5, 2007
    unless you run higher octane gas, I doubt the ECU's are going to help much. Nice cats!

    Ray
     
  5. MordaloMVD

    MordaloMVD F1 Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    4,222
    WA
    Full Name:
    Michael von Ditter
    #5 MordaloMVD, Jun 5, 2007
    Frankly, Hyper cats by any manufacturer are more hype than fact. I use them because it is the cheapest way to improve the exhaust sound. The few horses you gain are a bonus only. :) :) :)
     
  6. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
    #6 shawsan, Jun 6, 2007
     
  7. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    #7 lndshrk, Jun 6, 2007
    Here's the deal.. and what a deal it is, folks :D

    You guys find me an F360 Modena.. in good condition at a reasonable price
    with all the services up to date, and I'll have you some REAL software for
    these cars rather quickly.

    I am having a heck of a time finding a decent (00-02) 360 6spd.

    Looking to spend up to $130k.

    All I can find are F1's.

    Jim Conforti
     
  8. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    #8 lndshrk, Jun 6, 2007
    BTW, having looked at the factory tune for the F360 (and in the factory/OEM
    tools I might add) :D there are places to optimize the tuning:

    1) Fuel

    2) Cam positions

    3) Intake resonance

    4) Other areas (hey I'm not going to give all the details away - LOL)

    As to the realistic gains - I will do w/ the F360 the same as has been done
    with the BMW's.. try out each hardware mod (or none at all) and tune for
    peak performance on a dyno on spec'd fuel. Then rule out the wastes of
    time and money (most of them - likely)

    In short - I'll know when I do it - and when I know, I'll tell you - along with
    the dyno sheets. Of course - when the time comes - anyone who doesn't
    mind getting sweaty and go-fering for drinks/snacks can come help out
    on the tuning day(s).

    Jim
     
  9. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
    #9 shawsan, Jun 7, 2007
    Welcome Jim Conforti! You do, indeed, have a good reputation in BMW world, and perhaps elsewhere. I selected your chip over others for my modified BMW E34M5 on the basis of dyno info. and professional advice. Combined with aftermarket Dinan exhaust cam sprockets, your chip gave my M5 as well as my older E28M6 a real kick.

    Ferrari world seems strikingly different to BMW or Porsche world, however, at least to me. There just doesn't seem to be (i) a strong culture of modifying Ferraris among most owners, or (ii) tuners that have come forward with bona fide performance packages. Moreover, all extended OEM and extended warranties on new Ferrari's now strictly forbid aftermarket mods.

    On my 98 355 Spider and 360 modena, I considered remaps of the ECU by powerchip (modest gains) and Eurotek (bogus gains) for a seemingly huge amount of money ($3K vs. $300 in BMW land). Aftermarket exhausts seem to construe no documented dyno gains, just hype, as in the case of Tubi. BMC filters are touted as significant improvements, usually refering to dyno tests on VWs or Yugoslavian Yadas. Only sports cats seem to have some value-added niche here, as conveyed by the one and only dyno by a manufacturer on a 360CS by Hyperflow, and now this thread as well which provides at least some partial support (23lbs rwhp and 21ft/lbs rwtq, the latter conveyed to me in personal correspondence). I welcome the partial support not because it vindicates the inflated claims of manufacturers but because hyperflows are now in my CS, though I haven't driven it yet.

    Coming back to the different modification culture of Ferrari world vs. BMW and Porsche world, someone once said the difference between Porsche and Ferrari is that Porshe is an engineering marvel, Ferrari is an artistic marvel. Porsche enthusiasts tend to wear their cars like a track suit: they avidly explore aftermarket peformance mods. Ferrari enthusiasts tend to wear their cars like a tuxedo: they keep it prim and stock for movie star outings.
     

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