Jordan sacked Frentzen for Honda Eddie Jordan has finally spoken out over his controversial sacking of star driver Heinz Harald Frentzen in 2001 claiming he had to show the German the door to secure a continued supply of engines from Japanese manufacturer Honda. Frentzen was fired just before his home Grand Prix in 2001 and was a big shock to all in F1. Frentzen himself found out the bad news by fax and since then very little has been mentioned publicly. "At the time I couldn't let Frentzen renew the contract because my only way of holding onto the Honda engine was by giving the drive to Sato," Jordan told the Irish Sunday Independent newspaper. "I loved Frentzen - he won more grands prix for Jordan than anyone else but I had to protect the engine situation," Jordan added. "I took it on the chin. Nobody except myself and one or two in Jordan realised why I had to do it. I hated being in that position - I wanted to keep Frentzen but I couldn't." Source: F1racing.net And all the trouble you guys gave Imperial for his "Japanese bashing" and his critical views on this connection....tich, tich! Anybody want to eat crow while it's still warm? Jim
You and Imperial have a point in that the sacking of Frentzen was abominable and rude tactics by Honda. Not that such practices are so uncommon in F1. Where I disagree with Imperial is his bashing of Sato in his current form: He is an aggressive driver, sometimes overly aggressive so, but I think he knows exactly what he is doing and I applaud him for that. F1 has plenty of follow-the-leader drivers already. Just my $ 0.02.
Hmmm, lets look at HH Frentzen ... and see why his days in F1 had run its course anyway. HH Frentzen actually made it to the Williams team ... and guess what SUCKED completely. HHF was always a second rate driver that was fast, but not mentally tough enough to be a top class racer ... MS had him completely screwed before he even sat in the Williams. Now yes I agree, Honda put the pressure on and maybe Sato should not have got that seat ... but HHF was over, Sato has promise. The last thing F1 needs is to continue holding on to these dead wood ageing F1 drivers ... we need new talent desperately!!!. Why do you think McLaren got Honda engines in the 90's ... Senna ... this is the way of F1 politics. Also have a look at Honda's rider stuffing around in the MotoGP ... [EDIT:]let Rossi go[/EDIT] simply 'cause they would not maintain his number 1 (in the team) status. In conclusion: Eddie Jordan is a d!ckhead, and if you want Honda in your team you have to bend over and take what they want to give you. The upside of that experience is usually pretty damn good engineering, etc. Pete ps: Personally I probably cheered (can't remember) when F1 was rid of HHF and I would like to sack 80% of the current drivers and get some passion and commitment back into the sport. Everybody keeps moaning on about the rules and how they cannot pass, etc. ... the real issue is the drivers ... they are poofs. MS hardly ever has trouble passing and niether would have Gilles or any other real racer ... but ofcourse if you are a rich little boy that has never had to push himself right to the limit in your cosetted life and then decide that 'Yeah F1 is cool', I'll become a F1 driver, should get a few roots, etc. ... well ofcourse you are going to suck as a real racer. You should not even be there, but filling up the Le Mans fields, where all the other rich tosser amature drivers are.
Pete: Psst. Rossi QUIT Honda. Not the other way around. Then again, as a racing entity, Honda is ruthless, cunning and not adverse to using leverage (of any kind) to retain it's superiority in a series - this does not exclude pulling out all together.
True (oops, I've edited that post) but I explained WHY he quit. Honda applied the squeeze and refused to treat him as number 1, thus he left ... Honda were fools IMO. True. Pete
Sorry, I'll try again. According to all the motor cycle articles I have read regarding Honda and Rossi's relationship, Honda would not support Rossi as the dedicated number 1, which is what he wanted. Honda instead wanted to make their whole team finish 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. and did not care who won the race, as long as their bike dominated. Thus a very much manufacturer based focus. Rossi ofcourse wants a team to 100% work for him ... like any WC, thus Rossi left. Yamaha 150% bend over backwards and do whatever (er, close to) Rossi wants and thus Rossi won. IMO Honda still do not fully understand the sport ... the rider/driver has to be the boss, as in the end the best bike/car in the world means nothing if the rider/driver is not good enough or cannot make it work for him/her. Thus trying to listen to EVERY rider/driver instead of one master means that you end up with a slow bike/car. Compromises do not work in motorsport. You should only listen to the number 2 driver/rider as a back up to make sure you are on the right track ... but otherwise they do not matter at all. Hence Ferrari (for comparison) build their F1 car 100% for MS ... RB has little input and thus he starts the season at a disadvantage, BUT Ferrari start the season with a distinct advantage because their fastest driver has the best tool they can possibly give him. Think about it statistically: It only takes a single (one) bike to completely stuff Honda's thinking ... and that bike was Rossi on a Yamaha. Thus Honda aiming for the dream team, compromised their bike to try and make everybody fast ... which slowed their bike (as compromises always do) and thus weakened their defence to the Yamaha team which made a bike that only Rossi can make work. Rossi and Yamaha really started the season at an advantage because they worked TOGETHER ... Honda riders would have been arguing all season long trying to get changes, etc. That is why (as much as it personally annoys me) Ferrari are 100% right to design/build/whatever support MS and ignore RB. Cause Ferrari want to win, and that is what motorsport is about, whatever it takes and it only takes a single (one) rider/driver to win! Honda are wrong, Rossi (and Ferrari) are right. Pete
From what I know, the core of the dispute b/w Rossi and Honda was Honda's refusal to reimbure Rossi for an airline ticket that was for him or someone close to him - it was this, allegedly, that spurred much of the bad blood, on the personal level. Professionally, you're spot on: Honda's always contended that it's the bike, not the rider. It's always the car that makes the driver a champion, not the driver that takes it accross the finish. Rossi proved them dead wrong in '04 and he'll do it again in '05 - though this time, he'll do it with a bigger stick.
Did not know that ... amazing, but if things are going wrong with any relationship, little things can tip the balance! Pete
Maybe EJ had no choice regarding his team's survival, but he still should have been man enough to tell HHF to his face. To say he took it on the chin is false bravado. The only thing he took on the chin were the balls of the Honda execs he was blowing. To fire Frentzen via fax was BS.
Pete, Pete, PETE! Did HHF steal your toys as a kid?!?!? As far as the Williams drive is concerned, do you think YOU could work with HEAD(case)? And with golden boy JV, why bring HHF along? That was a disaster from the start. Could he have done something about it? I think he did - HE MOVED ON! (like everyone else in the history of Williams) He WON at Jordan (JORDAN! and several times at that!) and came in 3rd behind MH and EI in the WDC. That's nothing to sniff about. I always thought the guy drove well and hard. His career management could have gone better! He was just a quiet guy, probably depressed by Michael stealing his girl. Andreas - I think Imperial's and my point has NOTHING to do with HHF's sack (although we can agree, it sucked). It has to do with an undeserved drive. Sorry, but one bone-headed move after another does not vault him to "good aggressive driver" status and certainly not GV's level! The fact that he was not offered a contract this year until the last minute, due to some "maneuvering" by Honda, no doubt, says a lot! (or is that manure-ing?) I'm not stupid, I realize this stuff goes on all the time. But in this case, it is a plain obvious undeserved drive - that is my aurgument. Everyone was VERY critical of Imperial's (and my) view of this bogus Honda connection. Most of you claimed that he got his drive on merit - I hope Imperial is laughing as hard as I am now! I'm not one to say I told you so, but we got flamed pretty hard. Crap is crap, and I think Sato falls into that category - only to be outdone by JPM. Just my VERY humble .02! Jim
Yep. A real driver would have simply got on with beating his team mate ... instead HHF proved himself a number 2 level driver. Even Hill won with Williams and he was no top draw racer ... but bloody mentally strong. Yes impressive ... but atleast one race was a confused wet race ... Minardi probably had a chance. True. Your opinion, mine is that he was not good enough for F1 ... you left wing, softly softly guys that do not want to hurt anybodies feelings might feel different. I say it how I see it ... and if a racing driver cannot handle that, then he is too mentally soft for the sport. Agree ... and I will admit that is a trickly process with a lot of luck involved. Er, get over it whimp! (meaning HHF ) ... your life is pretty damn good, move on! I am pretty sure you will never find a post of mine that says he 100% got the drive on merit. My point was ... I could not care how he got the drive, I believe he deserves to be there now, and has promise and has more future in F1 than many of the rest, who have been there long enough to know that they are not going to improve or get that break, etc. And I disagree ... HHF was cr@p (definitely nothing special ...) in my books. And again we return to opinions, discussed a few sentences earlier . Pete BTW: All drivers get their break due to support from somebody ... Sato's just happen to be Honda, MS's was a family friend supplying the $$'s, etc.
Time will tell, and I judge a drivers ability on how he RACES, not how he got there or what his posters look like . Sato appears to be willing to race and take the consequences ... unlike the others. Pete ps: Are you really just jealous of his Honda backing? ... if so F1 is the wrong sport for you my friend, 'cause like it or not 75% of F1 drivers are spoilt little rich boy's that got there on somebody elses shirt tails or contacts.
Well good for you. Fchat should be a joyful. Seriously, each to his own of course. But the part I always wondered about your disapproval of Sato is why him? I see about a dozen less talented drivers in F1 that ought to be sacked on the spot in comparison to him. He is not gold (as e.g. MS or Kimi), but IMHO he isn't on the bad side either. I'd put him above average, ahead of the middle.
I do not like the other paying drivers as well. Also, I probably dislike Montoya more than Sato. I put Sato and Montoya in the reckless driver bracket. Those two should be sent back to driving school. Every race they drive recklessly and endanger the lives of other drivers, officials, pit crews and fans at the race track. Sato and Montoya do not belong in F1 and that is the bottom line. I think they belong in NASCAR where driving abilities do not count and where people enjoy big bad crashes.
I remember a lot more people saying the exact thing about Senna in the early 90s. There were many a time when he was already in the lead and was still making dangerous overtaking maneuvers of back markers. Some of those maneuvers ended up in contact with him dropping out of the race. Not exactly the mark of a champion. But, when the dust cleared he was one of the greatest. Now, I don't think Sato will go on to be as great as Senna... But, I do think he'll be World Drivers Champion. You can laugh all you want. Sato hasn't hit his stride yet. Give him another year or two and the guy will be a terror. Formula 1 is the better for having drivers like him. I wish we had a grid full of them, then as Pete says Formula 1 would be interesting. Oh, and I can guarantee Sato is not a paying driver.
Senna! One of the best!?!? According to who!? Senna does not even come close to Michael Schumacher If you had read any of my posts before you would know that I don't say SATO is a PAYING DRIVER. Sato has been put in F1 to act as a poster boy for Honda. Sato = more T-shirt sales. Nothing more! I did not say he paid to drive. He does not have the money or resorces to do that. Honda paid every team or coerced them to get him a racer's seat.
Look in all seriousness, Senna was a great driver. But the greatest... may be not. However, I have a lot of respect for the man and what he did for F1. SATO and Montoya, I have no respect for. They are both rash and dangerous drivers. Every race I pray that they don't hurt anyone due to their lack of respect for other driver, fans at the track and track officials.
The difference is that in Formula 3 and Pro Mazda, the cars are slower and the other drivers are comparatively more protected. The speeds in F1 are too dangerous for idiots like Montoy and Sato to be driving around. I really pray no one gets hurt because of their fool hardiness.
Hmmm you have dropped the ball again and displayed your lack of motor racing in general knowledge. The safest by far form of single seater motorsport is F1, by a huge margin. Why is this, because huge TV audiences watch the sport every race and a death view by millions does not help F1. The other reason is the money available to make them safe. Now Formula Ford (where most start getting serious) is incredibly fiecely fought and these cars are just steel spaceframes and while their speeds are not F1 level (around 140mph tops) they have big crashes and breaking legs is common. If you read Niki Lauda's (auto?) biography he clearly states that the lesser formula are considerably more dangerous due to desperate drivers, trying to impress higher formula team bosses. Lets face it most drivers are trying to get to F1, and they try real hard for many, many painful years. Once they get there they have reached a goal and many back off a notch or 2 and some have trouble motivating themselves enough to suceed at the highest level. Pete
