The Schumacher Movie

Yep I agree, was very well done.
The early Beneton? years were very interesting,to me.

 

I'm looking forward to watching the movie tonight. I wonder if my opinion will change?

I can't say I liked him very much - in fact, I disliked him immensely - I was a huge Senna fan after all.

My dislike started from the Brazilian GP in 1994 - or more accurately after I read the Autosport report.

Its very likely that he got ahead Senna after the pit stop because of the filter being removed from the refueling rig (the cause of Verstappen's fire at Hockenheim). Schumacher's fuel stop was much quicker than Senna's and I recall in the Autosport report that they initially thought it was because the Ford Cosworth V8 used significantly less fuel.

Yes, this can't be proved but given so many dubious things that went on at the Benetton team at the time, like finding launch control on the software when the ECUs were removed after a random check post Imola (Mclaren and I think Ferrari also were tested and found to be in the clear), removal of the filters in the fuel rigs etc, I'm inclined to think there were times the Benetton team sailed awfully close to what constitutes cheating.

Also Schumacher's post victory quote at the Brazilian GP really irked me. I'm paraphrasing now but in the Autosport report, I recalled he said some thing like this "I know the Brazilian fans came to here to see a Senna victory, but I wanted something different". Which is fine, but if he got ahead of Senna because his refueling rig most likely had the filter removed (hence a faster stop),he didn't win fair and square and denied Senna a final victory at Brazil.

I also didn't like him dedicating his first title in Adelaide 94 to Senna after deliberately crashing into Hill. It seemed disingenuous.

Was Schumacher the greatest driver of his generation - unquestionably so.

Was he the most talented? Hmmm. At least as talented as anybody (Hakkinen).

Was he fittest? This was a key aspect of his domination in the 90s. TBH, Senna was never going to better Schumacher consistently post 94 refueling era because in effect, F1 races had become a series of sprint races - a driver didn't have to pace the car for fuel and tyres like in the pre refueling era. Senna greatest weakness was his fitness (witness his fatigue on the podiums). Also, once Bridgestone came on the scene in 97, they developed tyres that were really suited to Schumacher's 100% flat out attacking style.

Was he the smartest? Absolutely - really a modern Lauda - he used his mind to constantly improve himself. He tested the car relentlessly until he had no flaw. Hamilton simply cannot compare to Schumacher in this regard.

How do I feel now?
Although I still believe that Senna was faster, better in the rain and under the pre 94 rules, a better driver but I do think he's the greatest driver of all time. Why? Because under pre 94 rules, Schumacher was very very close to Senna and after 94, a step ahead. I think in any era, Schumacher would've been a top 2 driver.

 

OMFG....I've heard even Hill say the opposite to that.

I know you're getting old and senile, but check the video again. You can't possibly know what MS was thinking as he stuck to his normal line, and I've heard Hill say he should have waited..."but when you see a gap....." right? Well, he wishes he hadn't jumped into that gap, and it's up to the passing driver to make a safe pass, right? MS's car was still going at that point and he probably still didn't know the extent of the damage. It was only a second or two later.

 

BTW.....Hill and Wolff are implying that Max purposely crashed into Lewis this past weekend too.

 

I think Schumacher knew his car was damaged when he defended his line.

He was too intelligent not to know. His capacity to process information whilst racing was apparently incredible, beyond his rivals apparently.

But fair enough, maybe he was relying on instinct, as he was driver that gave no quarter.

P.S
I'm sure if we did a pop quiz on F1 cars, F1 results over the past 50 years, I know who would win. And it aint you

 

Yes, Senna and Schumacher were from the same mould in terms of driver etiquette.

I also think Ross Brawn complemented Schumacher in that 'take no prisoners' approach to racing, so he really pushed the boundries with the rules. I think he took Richard Petty's quote from NASCAR to heart - 'if you aint cheating, you aint trying hard enough'.

Personaly, I think Ross Brawn was never a great designer per se (although definitely a brilliant brilliant brilliant strategist), certainly not in the same league as Barnard or Head or then newcomer Newey, so he had to push the boundries to get on even terms.

McLaren and Willaims were so far head with facilities, technology and talent at that time they didn't have to push the boundries of the rules quite so much.

So as much as Schumacher changed the racing scene from a driver view point, I think Brawn was very much the same from an engineering point of view.

 

Thanks for proving me right.....but it was quite unnecessary.

Even in slow motion it doesn't look like MS intended to crash into Hill.....but play it at full speed and you can see why Hill regrets not waiting.

And, no protest and no penalties. Considering the way the officials treated MS that year, as detailed in that video, there would have been no holding them back if they believed there was foul play.

 

I think every body just wanted 1994 to be over, hence no protest. In the end, everybody knew Schumacher deserved the title regardless.

But yes, I guess when you know you rear suspension/toe link is wonky and effectively at best, you are at a comeptive disadvantage for the rest of the race, you would defend a corner aggressively.

 

You forgot the human response called "wishful thinking"

Anyway, ridiculous comment! If Williams had a whiff that a protest could have won them the championship, they'd have done it. Whom wouldn't?

 

Pete, it was more than par for the course. I have spoken to ex Benetton engineers in the UK who are now restorers and they describe Briatore as a crook and a persistent cheat. When you buy a used Benetton F1 car you will never get a diff or the electronics modules, 2nd hand or otherwise - they were removed and later destroyed to prevent anyone making a claim to the FIA.

 

That's convenient. When did you become such a conspiracy theorist?

 

when I bought this.

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Watched it ....... meh

 

So far, you're the only person I've heard day that. Am I surprised? No

 

I've dayd it all say long
I thank him for the championships but always found it hard to warm to him
I didn't like Senna either

 

What's that got to do with the movie?

 

I said l wasn't implessed

 

Haven't seen it. Will watch it Saturday night.

 

It’s worth it, I enjoyed it.


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I thought the movie was fine. I enjoyed it but nothing special - it didn't add any real insight into the man and his relentless drive to win.

I think there was a really amazing love story in the documentary that got lost.

For an anarok, I didn't like it when they were describing the 96 season and used footage of the 96 and 97 car. I don't mind a artistic movie lacking accurate details (i.e Ford vs Ferrari) for sake of story telling but a documentary should be 100% spot on.

In the ending credits, they used a bit of racing footage of the amazingly beautiful 412 T2 (Jean Alessi's car I think - Monaco 1995) when he never drove that car in a race - he did test it at Fiorano at the end of 95 (and said afterwards if he had that car, he would've won the championship in 95 - apparently he loved the engine braking the V12 offered as it allowed him to unsettle the rear).

I guess I'm being particularly picky becasue it could've been so much more.

 

I don't know if picky is the word I'd be using.

Sanctimonious comes to mind.