The Shah of Iran Miura | Page 12 | FerrariChat

The Shah of Iran Miura

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Kds, Dec 29, 2008.

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  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    All good points Roy, but I should emphasize, I do not know who replaced/removed/substituted/stole/pilfered anything! I'm only supposing all the components were changed in Italy, but I note this car was in Iran, Italy & Switzerland before the USA from what I can gather, and anything could have happened in any of these places. All I know is what I got.
     
  2. Diablo_4_Ever

    Diablo_4_Ever Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2004
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    Joe, did you attend the Lamborghini Day 3 event in 1993?
     
  3. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

    Jul 30, 2004
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    I have to agree with you 110%...never had an issue with AIR, but EVERY Sea Cargo car...always something missing, broke, pilfered or delayed...and with most Sea Cargo..insurance deductabile is $5K or greater, so they know...
     
  4. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    No unfortunately I did not.
     
  5. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
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    #280 johnhoughtaling, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
    Joe:

    The list you state, while I'm sure is correct, is all very very minor things. A shift knob? switches? tool and books? the AC internals? My point is OK, so you had to do things and you are pissed, but to suggest the car was ransacked and the car is somehow lacking post restoration, is a bit of a stretch.

    As for the front hood. OK, it was replaced. Big deal. As for blaming previous owners about prior statements about the hood, well, I could do the same. That was the past and not the present, and I'm willing not to vent about my issues I faced trying to get the car correct.

    I had to do many many things to set this car right and fix outright falsehoods about this car after my ownership. Take a second to re-read the right up on this car on the Lamborghini Registry. You've previously made statements about this car which research proved to be very wrong. I'm sure they were not intentional and you were just learning, but as for casting stones on the car in its PRESENT condition, don't. I spent alot of money restoring it perfectly to exact specs that the Shah had it in (previously falsely alleged to be the case). It now has the switches, shift knob, and books. It also has the hood and interior in the way it was when the shah had it. (thanks to me).

    There's no legitimate criticism that can be levied on the car restored as it sits now (other than maybe an non-original shift knob, maybe some switches, and possibly the car had its hood replaced) Hardly anything that affects its provinence now.

    Nor did it affect it being recognized with a value much higher than any achieved by an SV.

    lets leave it there.
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #281 joe sackey, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    John:

    Please don't get me wrong - I must emphasize that although it important to accurately and truthfully recount what this car went through, that should not take away from its current stature, or my past pride of ownership, in any way. You did a great job completing its rescue, and that too, is a fact. Yes all that matters is that it looks almost as it was when the Shah owned it, but, the past should still be recounted accurately.

    My mistakes with this car were with the reworking of the front hood and the interior. But, I followed the advice of one of the men who looked after the car, an expensive mistake on my part, and the last time I took for granted the memory of someone who was there in the period without independent corroboration from other sources! It was all a learning curve.

    As for the frothy write-ups on ILR, its expected! I can think of some other so-called historic Miuras with same, written by their owners.

    Somebody commented on whether the car was going back to Iran (I don't believe it is) and all I can say is that if it did, it would be seized because the Shah's cars are considered government property there to this day. His lovely LP400 remains in a public museum there.

    Anyway, I remember the day I arranged for these images to be taken. A special day with a special car.
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  7. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    So many previous brokers and owners made mistakes and representations that proved to be wrong.

    But now, the car is set right and perfect, and to me, rather than being upset about what happened in the past, its important to know its now right. While I don't have any more ownership in the car, I spent a lot of time and money untangling it.

    No, the car is not going back to Iran. It's in another part of the middle east.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree.

    But John, understand one thing: an accurate recounting of the past does not mean anyone is (still) upset! It simply means an accurate accounting!
     
  9. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    #284 johnhoughtaling, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
    Yes, and I thank you that in your current pursuit of accurate accounting you are now correcting your prior misstatements and mistakes about the car. Most historians don't often admit when they are wrong about the history of the subject that they profess to be an expert in. So I think your ability to do that should be respected, and gives you more credibility.

    Just wanted to make the point that although the car was improper in the past, it is now presently corrected. Thats all.
     
  10. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    So were these "so called" accurate re-counting made out of spite for not being involved in the sale of this NOW RECORD sale, knocking you off of the Miura Sale Thorne..?

    Why would the ILR have to have been "embelised" description to begin with, was it just not "accurate" from day one...when you WERE involved..?

    I recall a certain Miura "S" that had a quite accurate description on the ILR, then overnight had a totlay NEW description...not a very nice one...after it was being offered by myself for sale.?????

    IMO, Joe, and everyone knows we dont see eye to eye...you are really trying to throw whatever sand you can on this historic sale of a historic vehicle...and for what, IMO cause you had nothing to do with it...no one came to your sand box to play...
     
  11. johnhoughtaling

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    #286 johnhoughtaling, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2009
    Joe has pointed out he needed to fix things, and that simon was not candid with him.

    He admitted that he misstated things during his ownership and is man enouph to admit his mistake.

    I'm sure Roy, you will light a fire under Joe.


    But my point is that TODAY, NOW, at PRESENT, the car is in perfect shape like when the Shah had it. Albiet with non-original books, some switches and maybe a replaced hood (which I fixed after Joe).

    Roy and Joe, you guys can have at it. But I will take issue of the PRESENT condition of 4870, and like the litigation lawyer I am, I will be very specific to prove my points.
     
  12. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    You know for a year, I've participated in this thread, solely as an enthusiast. I shared my time, and the car with all of you. For a year, everyone has enjoyed sharing.

    Now that the car is sold, the thread turns sour. I find that sad.

    Truth be told, I too had some upsetment about misrepresentations/mistakes about the car. But instead of slamming people, I spend my money, researched, uncovered the wonderful truth and applied it and brought back something true and beautiful.

    Then I shared my experience and we've all enjoyed it.

    I could go over who is to blame for me having to fix the car, but I'm not. The cars fixed. We can leave it at that Joe, and the rest of it, or we can start deconstructing who did what to who when. Its up to you.
     
  13. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran

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    Yes, your right...I dont need this headache...AGAIN..

    The car is simply stunning now.. and out somewhere in the world there is a lucky person who is the new and proud owner of a lot of great histroy and a great car.

    On to the next project....

    End of story.
     
  14. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

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    ...So
    where is the car heading now ? :eek:


    and I wonder if John is going to buy another Miura ? :confused:
     
  15. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    Car is in Bahrain

    already bought another

    I will provide info on another thread
     
  16. Erik Ludwick

    Erik Ludwick Rookie

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    All of us have probably experienced some misrepresentation on the purchase of one of these rare beauties from time to time. I have on a couple of occasions. In my case, I don't think they were intentional.

    It really sucks the fun out of the sharing of these cars when this becomes more about personal attacks.

    John, good on you for selling the Miura and breaking records. It is good for all SV owners that you have done so. Look forward to seeing you in your green Miura with the blue interior one day.
     
  17. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    This is true Erik and thanks for the post. This should definetly be the last of any negativity. No reason to ruin what is possibly one of the best threads we've had in the Lambo section.

    John, I thank you once again and I hope we can do it all over again with your new car!
     
  18. 250californiafan

    250californiafan Formula 3
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    #293 250californiafan, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    John,
    Congrats on the sale and the new Miura, it's good to see you living your dream. It was great to be able to see the Miura for the past two years at the Celebration show, and I hope to see the new Miura this year. Maybe you can pull off best in show two years in a row. :)
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  19. Miura Jota

    Miura Jota F1 Rookie

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    the USA has lost a great car :eek:


    So... is John getting a VERDE MIURA ?

    that would be awesome !

    VERDE would be the only reason to get rid of the ex SHA car .
     
  20. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

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    Erik and all thank you for the comments.

    Yes, as a child a miura to me was green, and I love eyelashes.

    As much as I will miss the car And her curvey rear end, a green S will probably be more appropriate for me.

    I bought a splendid original late Miura S with AC, one of the nicest I've ever seen (and I paid accordingly-I can tell you the miura market at all levels is strong. While I will probably take heat for doing it I am going to restore it to my choice of period colors.

    For me, and a main reason for selling was the color. It will be green. The interior I'm not sure. I've always loved Joes old green/blue miura. The shade of electric blue looked great but I don't think I will be that bold. I may go with the original blue color. I've researched and found at least one original car delivered in Green/blue so I can satisfy the collector part that I am using factory color combos.

    For me it's about my own pleasure and fantasy, not someone elses choice. While I would never change the color of an important historical miura like 4870, when it was a regular customers order, then I think I will transport myself back to 1970 and order one the way I prefer.

    Gary Bobileff is doing the complete restoration. It's already begun and he's promised to deliver it to me on my 39th birthday on March 20th (we will see)
    we will spare no expense to do restore this car perfectly. The only change will be non original but period correct colors.

    Still on the fence about ordering interior black or blue. Black is safer and more recognized and common, but the blue is close to my heart.

    I'll let you know.
     
  21. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Chassis number?

    Bought from where?
     
  22. Erik Ludwick

    Erik Ludwick Rookie

    Aug 24, 2008
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    John,

    Here is an opinion that you probably don't need or want!

    You will never regret black, but it will bore you quickly. Remember that when you drive the car, you will see almost no exterior color. All you have is the interior while you are in it. Might as well be wowed!

    If your car is done before my two at Gary's I am going to blow a gasket! Mine are months behind schedule.
     
  23. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    The answer is no. Not at all. I think you misunderstood. My point was that this car has been through a lot, as many great historical cars have. Now, the car exists in fantastic condition, all credit due to John.

    In my Miura book, the car is portrayed glowingly, and only in its current restored form, to underscore the fact that this is what matters.

    As for sales, please believe me, I have no right to complain!
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    There, perfectly stated!

    My intent was nothing more or less than that.
     
  25. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #300 joe sackey, Dec 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you, and I agree most historians are stubborn. But it is really easy for me to say I was wrong about the bonnet for example, and I sincerely believe that when new received wisdom comes in that is corroborated beyond doubt by multiple sources you have to consider it and make adjustments. Thats how you truly learn. In fact my book is in its second printing, and already some small mistakes we made in the 1st printing have been corrected.

    Now here are some pics to make you have seller's remorse about the sale of the Shah's SV :)
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