The Tesla Plaid Will Smoke Every Car Ferrari Makes for $150k

"aerodynamics are for people who can´t build engines"
this guy does

 

Joe,

I enjoyed your post because it shows you are a person who values TRUTH, but it won't get in the way of what you love.

I smoke cigars.

Lots of folks hate it. That's fine. But, you'll never find me telling folks that it's impossible they cause cancer or to some noses they stink to high heaven.

 

It has to do with MPG, emission regulations, and supply regulations. Don't play this into P&R. I am not falling for this trick.

 

Wait, WHAT!! He is bald?!?!

 

not sure if folks on a Ferrari forum should cast aspersion about reliability and cost of repair.

glasshouse / throwing stone and such.

 

I grew up in LA, too; I know what you speak.
If folks only knew what the pre-catalytic converter era was.
I'm like you; I enjoy the same things for the same reasons. I get you.

Elon is not a nice man. I agree with you 100%. However, most of the tycoons of the past 100 years were not 'nice people.' I find it odd that Musk seems to get specific hatred that I didn't see with Jobs, Gates, Elison, heck, even Enzo himself. So why Musk specifically?

Now complaining about the business climate in California is something I even do, so I can't fault him for that. I truly believe if he can also move the factory to Texas, Musk will.

As for subsidies - again, we're like-minded. I don't support them either. However, who do I blame here? If your Uncle (happens to be your legal guardian, and let's call him Sam) takes money from your wallet and gives it to a stranger.

Do you yell at the stranger, or do you yell at your Uncle?

What did Elon do?
***

Finally, for crypto - he's a Troll? You don't say? I was a troll too toward Pets.com, Flooz.com, or eToys.

Dodgecoin literally started as a joke. Don't you see the irony of that?

 

There are less than 200,000 ferrari's produced over the brands lifetime, including racing chassis in the whole world. I accepted the reliability and cost of repair by the way of my own decisions, not mandated decisions. I was not forced to purchase an expensive vehicle with expensive maintenance costs. I have daily drivers that cost me less than 50k each and I have put probably $5000 in maintenance cost total into them over the last 5 years. ICE engines and power trains are extremely reliable, electronics and sensors are not. I have a GL450 in NC that I have spent probably $10k on due to electronics issues in the last 3 years. I am going to send it down here, and dump it off for parts.

Electric motors wear out, the bearings in those motors wear out. Windings overheat and lose efficiency and draw more power over time. LiFe batteries have lifetimes depending upon how far they are drained. You want to get the cost out of an electric car, you have to start cutting back quality and pass the repair costs onto the backs of the purchaser. This is what the manufacturers will do.


There are over 258,000,000 vehicles in the US alone. Most of those vehicles have price tags less than 40k and with repair bills of less than a $500 a year, my statement still holds, how you tell 70% of the country that they have to buy a $100k piece of electric crap with $5000 a year repair bills due to all the sensors, inverters, motors and battery replacements for premature failures when their family makes $60k a year.

 

We're talking about speed.

I never lauded:

MPG
SMOG
SUPPLY

You indeed mentioned it, why I still don't understand.

You know as well as I that somebody that takes a car to a track doesn't care about mileage, smog, co2, or supply regulations.

They care about one thing and one thing only.

Lap time.

Either electric cars are faster than ICE dollars per dollar or not. Either KERS F1 vehicles are setting new records or not.

An electric engine does not vote, nor does it care about the environment, nor does it 'feel' bad that it's faster and cheaper than an alternative method at the same cost.

It just is.

 

I remember it as a small child, you speak the truth!

Thank you for your service! I appreciate you, sir!!

We are not in disagreement about Musk's personality.

Musk is a jerk.

However, Musk is consistent. He would love Uncle Sam to give himself and only him an advantage. You're right. All I'm saying is this is how other folks like Jobs/Buffet/Gates/etc have been too.

The contrast is I see extra consternation toward Musk that I just have not seen with these past tycoons.

I mean, you said yourself you're supportive of subsidies, so you should be happy Musk took advantage of something you support.

****

If I understand, you're unhappy that Musk doesn't want welfare for others even though Tesla got contributions.

I point out welfare, and technological grants/tax breaks/investments are two very different things.

One can be against food stamps, but be for military spending.

It doesn't make one a hypocrite.

 

It seemed you were referencing market driven comparisons. Were you saying the iWatch didn't replace the Rolex because:

iWatch is easier to read than a Rolex,
iWatch costs less than a Rolex,
iWatch functions like a phone, a rolex does not,
iWatch keeps more accurate time than a Rolex,
iWatch has appointment reminders, unlike a Rolex,
iWatch can take a persons blood pressure, unlike a Rolex.

Therefore, the iWatch is better than a Rolex in every possible way it seems.

So, what you are referencing is performance only if an electric vehicle is faster than a ICE on a track. Ok, I think we all can agree without going to a track that instant torque on application of power is higher on an electric motor than an ICE. Yes it is. But why do Formula 1 cars have to keep regenerating their battery non stop around the track? When that much power is applied, the battery may be able to deliver it, but it won't be for long. They apply it to come out of corners when the ICE torque curve is low and not optimal, and recharge it, and it is not a trivial way to do that which is why it takes 100's of engineers to constantly work on and monitor the car.

So, what does a Formula 1 car cost for that performance? 2020 numbers show $12,200,000 on average for the car. I can get a 2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S for $160,000. If I made the Formula 1 team build their Formula 1 car ICE/Battery hybrid with a maximum $160,000 including their battery system, who would be fastest around the track?

 

The primary function of a watch is what?

To me, it's to tell time.

Yes, an iWatch will more accurately tell the time, be cheaper, have far more functionality, etc.
Yet, I prefer Rolex. So it appears my example went over your head.

**
In terms of performance, yes - that's my context - why? Maybe because that's the OPs original question?
As to why electric motors are so fast, I've already said it - INSTANT TORQUE. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Throw in no need for a clutch, exact control over each wheel's spin, torque, traction, stability, vectoring, etc.

Just ask any automotive engineer, and they'll tell you electric cars will be vastly superior to combustion-powered vehicles on track in the future.
Right now, of course not; ICE has a 100-year head start. You don't erase weight penalties associated with electric cars overnight.

But in 10, 20, hell 30 years?

Stick your head in the sand if you want; I just love how the internet is forever. Ask yourself honestly how your position will age.

 

Well what is it Paul? Either you are talking performance or not. I was agreeing with you about your iWatch and Rolex. Then you want to say it’s not performance about the watches, but the original post you made about the comparisons, you then complained to me that you were talking about performance. And now you are not. Great, you prefer an old technology because you have your reasons, and it’s not performance apparently. But when other people say they prefer ICE over Electric, you want to jump all over them about performance and how Electric is so much better (or will be in 10,000 years or so in your opinion) because that is what you were talking about.

Then, the watch is apparently just to tell time, but an ICE versus an Electric vehicle is some darn transcendental experience besides getting from point A to point B. Pick something and stick with it. Now I can see why people get frustrated over the posts. Now I’m so frustrated I don’t even know if my post makes sense. Damn.

 

Ok, I’m trying to figure out what you are saying. Similar color? Similar styling? Similar performance?

 

Electric will wipe the floor with an ICE car in all aspects within the next 5 years..and that will include charging vs filling time.

Do yourselves a massive favor and starting reading about the battery tech that is on the horizon. No more lithium and long charge times. Look for the tech to be introduced into tablets and smart phones first. Then EV'S will get it shortly after.

Sorry old timers..scream, cry and moan all you want..a better performance car is on the horizon as much as you may not like high performance driving.

I suppose you will be able to putt putt around in your "steam trains" on certain days that are reserved for the slow under performing cars of yesterday on the track..just like the vintage races etc. Fun stuff for sure.

 

Trying not to venture into politics and such.
There are a lot of things that the government, for various reasons, decided to ban / penalize / discourage. You may or may not agree with the reasons. Generally, the reason is "the thing in question is bad for society".
driving fast/speeding, cocaine, murder, not paying taxes, Epstein's behavior (just because it's on the news).

Driving ICE cars is generally consider "bad for the environment" and driving electric cars is "cleaner". Whether you agree with this "science" is up to you. However, the powers that be decided that this is the way forward and you don't really have a choice.

as more EVs are produced, the cost will come down - econ of scale and such. I have yet to see the figures claimed that EVs cost 10x and ICE cars to maintain. Both have sensors, motors, etc. Not sure if the sensors on EV or more unreliable than ICE.

FWIW, I have never owned an EV but very likely my next vehicle purchase will be one - with or without tax incentives. If the incentive is there, I'd be fool not to apply.

 

Tesla unveils $20,000 Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit for Model S Plaid - Electrek

 

Ferrari has been fudging production numbers for years. That 200k number is well under actual units. I'll bet there are 500k of things running around.