Things to think about, post-Imola 2006...

I think KR is really that fast. Look how many times he went from the back of the grid last year to win or come damn close. He had some amazing drives. This season, I don't think the McLaren is as strong as it was. They don't seem to have the pace of Renault or Ferrari (if their new found pace proves to be true). Unfortunately for MS, I think if him and KR were paired up next season, KR will out perform him.

KR and FA in an equal car would be a hell of a race I would pay good money to see. I really couldn't comment either one is better than the other, but I have a feeling KR might be just a slight bit faster.

Mark

 

I wonder if Alonso wished he would have stayed with Renault...I know I would have...

 

Point #1 - Alonso has not breached his contract - his contract was due to expire at the end of 2006 anyway. All he did was make an early announcement for the next season. Nothing wrong in that.

Point #1.5 - Agree, Ron Dennis must suspect that Kimi's heart is elsewhere and wanted to do the best possible thing for his team and sign up Alonso.

Point #2 - I have been saying all along that Alonso is the best possible successor to Michael in that he possesses a remarkable racing brain to go with his phenomenal talent and speed. I think Mark Webber has the best work ethic for anyone other than Schumacher but come race day he just doesnt deliver - for whatever reason - car problems or driver errors.

Kimi is known to make mistakes but that maybe due to the fact that he is always on the edge. The car's attrocious reliability means that Kimi is always in a catch up position in the championship. Now if he chooses to play it easy and safe and perhaps collect the points then he will still be beaten by Alonso in the end. So pushing hard in the hope of a win and max points is perhaps the best strategy when trying to catch up. Alonso on the other hand has it easy - he has got a comfortable points cushion and can afford to let a win get away from him on occasion and be happy with second.

If the roles were reversed - i.e. Kimi had a 15 points lead in a reliable and fast car and Alonso was in a fast but unreliable car, you would see Alonso pushing hard, making mistakes while striving to get ahead. Kimi can defend as well as anyone.

Perhaps, it is in Kimi's pysche to push ahead at all costs. I like this attitude as much as that of the strategic thinkers like Prost. One of my favorites drivers was Mansell - a whinger off the track but dynamite on it. Mansell would give his all on raceday - one could mentally visualize a brave knight charging forth with a cry of "Tally-ho". It was win or bust. Villenueve Sr. was like this too even more so.

From a TV viewer standpoint, I think it really is great that we have driverswith different kinds of attitudes fighting because it makes it heck of a lot more interesting for us awestruck fans.

As for your comment regarding KR not doing it besides having the best car, I challenge whether McLaren was the best car last year. McLaren was certainly blindingly quick but terribly fragile, built to the narrowest margins. Renault was nearly as quick for most of the races and was bulletproof. Pat Symonds mentioned that the car was delibrately tuned down a bit to keep it reliable. They weren't seeking pure performance at the cost of everything like McLaren. And remember when the titles were won and the wick was turned up the Renault decimated the McLaren in China.

Ron Dennis always says that it is easier to make a fast but unreliable car reliable rather than the other way. Unfortunately for KR, he han't really done it yet.

 

Gee, what happened on FChat?

Even in the past 2005 winter season I felt like still being the lone voice when putting FA on a pedastal of the top three alongside Kimi and MS (with MS of course having massive more experience and accolades to his account). All of a sudden the tide turns at least with some. What ever happened to all those cries of the unworthy Champion FA and Kimi being the real champion?

Anyhow, I agree FA is the more mature and developed driver than Kimi. I'm pretty certain he wouldn't have carried on the way Kimi did at Nuerburgring last year. There is good and bad luck in F1, but there is too much bad luck on Kimi's side, so I'm thinking he must be brutal on the car.

Having said this, I do also believe that in raw speed Kimi is the fastest there is. Faster than Alonso and faster than MS.

Personally I was crushed to see Alonso leave to the dark side. I would have loved nothing more than seeing him in the 2007 Ferrari. Once he is with McLaren, I will have to drop my support. McLaren and Ron Dennis is where I draw the line.
OTOH I look forward to Kimi in the Ferrari. Not sure he'll ever clinch the title (it could happen), but if in the worst case he'll turn out to be another Gilles Villeneuve, that'd be quite ok with me too. Drop a wheel and drag it back to the pits. If nothing else we'll have something to talk about.

I also agree with parkerfe: I had the same thought, what is going through Alonso's head seeing the lack of speed of the McLarens at Imola? In a way his early move to McLaren reminds me of JPM doing the same thing. OTOH Alonso has probably a lot more inside knowledge of what is going to happen to Renault in 2007 so he might have done the right thing. Add to that the fact, that the only other door was already closed (Kimi already signed at Ferrari), he really had not much of a choice.

PS: I still do not understand why Ferrari is not making an official statement. I have to say I find that rather annoying.

 

It was a general statement I made. It is interesting to observe how public opinion shifts.

Even in my beloved "motorsport aktuell" magazine, which kept a negative spin on Alonso they finally are turning the corner and now start to say things like "the champion is showing character", blablabla. They really should know better: You don't win a F1 championship without being a truly great driver. It is as simple as that.

 

Agree, and I'd be worried (a little) if I was Alonso. I think I said on another thread that I now do not think the McLaren is as fast as the (British?) press keep telling us. The other thing that really bothers me is the incredibly poor tactics that McLaren are continually playing.

This either means both their drivers are not able to deliver and thus play out their tactics or they are just stupid ( ).

I think they are making big mistakes trying to do the 1 less fuel stop strategy. It simply means that the first stint of your race is compromised by who ever you get stuck behind. Because they are only qualifying in the top 10 and not top 4 (say) they are getting stuck behind cars like Williams, Toyota and Massa, and this means that they can not run fast enough.

Williams have tried this over and over again (especially the previous years or 2) and I am starting to think it is an attempt to mask a not quite performing car. Thus they can say to their sponsors: Look our car is faster and thus we are trying to maximise our advantage ... and it did not quite play out, but you know it could have won us the race, etc.

Basically they should run light and fill the front row. MS just proved this at Imola and his early pace was okay but not super brilliant and he won the race, even with an average middle stint (thanks to used tyres). Thus having pole and leading is a huge advantage.

Agree, and I must say that if I was KR I'd leave McLaren too ... but not necessarily to Ferrari. I'd be trying for Renault. They have just resigned Briatore (sp?) so they must be in it for the next few years (?).

Agree completely and I thus think the McLaren is not the best car OR they are ruining their chances over poor strategy.

Agree that FA is more complete than KR, but I also think Renault have it sussed and that is the best car ... and is making Fisi look way below average.

KR may have raw speed, but JPM is beating him lately also. Thus maybe KR is not going to live up to his early promise ... ?

I'm rambling now, but in conclusion, something is definately wrong with the McLaren package, either:

1. Car is over hyped.
2. Drivers are only average, and KR is now being shown to be not so brilliant by a JPM which most of us wrote off as WC material a few seasons ago. Sometimes I do have to admit JPM looks so hooked up and bloody fast, has he lifted thanks to Ron?. Ron is brilliant at motivating drivers.
3. They should sack their tactician ... this would be my first move

Pete
ps: Great race Imola, and it is great to see that FerrariChat posters are mature enough not to be posting 'Ferrari are back' threads, cause we all know they aren't. Like last year (and many years previously, even back in the Berger days) they appear to know some secrets about Imola and thus their pace was good ... but Renault should really have won.

In the end though it was good to see motors holding together, and a win is a win so hopefully the team will be motivated .

 

I also am super impressed with Alonso now, but I also think that the Renault is a beautiful race car and they really are dominating relatively easily at the moment.

McLaren aren't really fighting well enough and Ferrari have car issues ... for a while I thought Williams were going to put the gloves on and take it to Renault but they are missing that last 5% too, so it is open for Renault to take another with continual good and sensible driving by Alonso.

This though is sad for all Fisi supporters but he really has poorly played his last chance, yet again and it is blatently obvious that the team are not even interested. The team are always the first to know if a driver is the real deal ...

Pete

 

Remember when people just shut up, got in the car, and DROVE ?

These days, it seems your 'aero package' is what makes or breaks you..... my point is, it seems your must be DEAD-ON, or you are stuck in 5th place.
We have seen one Ferrari do well in one race, on their home track, so let's wait 2-3 races before we pronounce Ferrari back on track to win another championship.

 

:Confused:, who said they were back?.

Pete

 

Ferrari are back!

But seriously, Pete don't quote others about the used tyres. MS specifically said in the post race press conference that he used new tyres in both pit stops. He stated that there was something wrong with the car. Knowing the margins are small it's quite a feat to hold of FA like he did. You don't do that with a bad car or bad tyres. Give credit where credit's due, especially on a Ferrari forum.

With all the continueing developments it's not easy to say if a team is back or not. Add to that the fact that every circuit is different and might suit a car (or driver) better or worse. It only makes the recent championships where Ferrari dominated even more impressive.

Now we have a situation we wished for in those days: real competition.

I'm not going to comment on Massa. To early to say (but in F1 terms he may allready be too late).

Ciao, Peter

 

on ferrari's performance:
1) lets not forget, bridgestone brought tires thinking the weather was going to be significantly cooler. Therfore, i think as the afternoon progressed and the temps increased, the tires began to grain.
2) when FA was behind michael and they were doing 1:27s, michael was controlling the pase knowing they were on very similar pit stops. when FA pitted michael pulled off a 1:25 showing that he still had the speed but was managing the pace.
3) i agree the renault was faster but i think ferrari are right there and will be on the pace again maybe not wins in the next 2 rounds but after that yes.

In summary, i find it amazing that last year everyone hailed Alonso for holding off Michael who had a much faster car, blah, blah, blah. This year, with the roles reversed, I expected headlines like, "The king is back showing the youth how its done", etc. But no, all i see is renault is clearly faster and Ferrari are not title contenders. Blows my mind how this couldn't be considered one of Michaels top 10 or 15 race wins.

 

Why is that a conflicting statement?

I totally agree that this was one of Michael's best races ever. He won that race, not the car. The Renault is faster and I don't think Ferrari will win the title. But I do think they have now a chance at trying. Not so much because of the win, which was a bit Imola specific, but because of the speed that put the car on pole and because of the engine that held together. And because the McLarens weren't even in the race, or were they? Can't remember.

 

I think you guys are forgetting that Ferrari are always fast at Imola ... even last year and they hadn't a hope of winning the WC with that car.

If they are fast in the next 2 races then I'll state that they are on their way back .

Pete

 

I think there is a big difference to last year: Their speed at Bahrain. That showed me the car isn't as bad as last year's. Also the tire issue seems to be less prominent now that changing is allowed again. Melbourne and Sepang were miserable, they had to reduce the rpms because of the failing pistons. That issue seems to be resolved after Imola (we really only find out once the engines have the 2nd race behind them).

For all those reasons I think Ferrari is back. Not back as in title challenger, but back as in one of the top teams. Last year they were midfield with free 18 points from USGP making the picture look better than it was.

 

Things to think about post Imola 2006 - well . . . . . I already made reservations for Imola 2007.

Carol

 

Not me. Others have.

 

According to Speed chanel , Ferrari gained 1000 rpms since last race with improved reliability of pistons. If so ; they ARE back.

 

This was proven by the fact that Alonso wasn't able to use slipstreaming. Michael ran away from him out of every corner.

 

Michael was able to dog Alonso around the track with last year's package. Ferrari doing well at Imola doesn't really mean all that much.

In the post-race interviews, both Schumi and Alonso were saying that the only reason Michael won was that there was no chance for Alonso to pass on that track.

Ferrari at Imola was better than they were at Australia -- so now they should be able to beat STR. Beating Renault is another matter.

And Kimi may look impressive coming from the back, but how many times did Rubens do that? It's a lot easier to pass Sato in an Aguri than Alonso in a Renault. All that says is that a scrambled grid sorts itself out over race distance.

It's nice that Ferrari were able to win a real race this year, but it's a bit early to start thinking championship.

 

So we should do it then: No harm done, but lots of entertainment value gained.

 

Provided you're entertained by seeing cars pass back-markers. It doesn't make it any easier for the competitive cars to pass each other -- and that's where the real fun is.

Kimi must have passed Coulthard a half dozen times last year, and it wasn't even worth showing on TV. But when he passed Alonso -- that was entertaining.

 

Actually any real pass for position is entertaining. I think F1 is better than its reputation: The real problem are stupid TV directors who focus on the battle at the front. Look at Imola: It was very fast clear to me, that Alonso stood no chance in passing MS, yet they kept showing his futile attempts. I'm sure there were some great battles in the midfield that we missed.

PS: At the same time Speed (or the Italian TV?) was stupid enough not to show MS tie braking pole position run. Unbelievable!