things you learn and the people you meet | FerrariChat
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things you learn and the people you meet

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by smg2, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #1 smg2, Sep 16, 2008
    So There's this guy down the road from me who's been building and modifying cars for 40+yrs, you name it he's done it. back in the early 80's he had a formula 5000 team. any case I take every opportunity I can to stop by and chat and learn, and he'll stop by for lunch and to see if I need any help on the crazy projects going thru the shop.

    he stopped by this morning to show me some pics of the Ferrari's he tweaked back in the 80's one was a 512BBI that he dropped a 8-71 wiend onto with EFI and custom made ofcourse velocity stacks. he said there were some others but had a hard time remembering them, said he'd get the album out later. I'll see if I can scan and post them up for you guys.

    I stop by his shop later today and he's going on about pneumatic valve springs, apparently he designed them back in the early 80's for a motor he was building for a very wealthy customer. the customer had a contact at Renault and apparently sold it off to them behind his back. now most people tell tall tales, he walks over to the corner of the shop and pulls out a bin with all the parts and pics from back then and a photo of it being tested at crane cams! he was putting these into ford and chevy motors and was able to get 12k rpm. his regret was not getting a patent, but he said he was far to busy with the race team and too involved with the joy of racing to bother, lesson learned.

    it's great to meet people like him, not alot of them around. the sad part his is health if very very poor lately and he's having TGA's pretty frequently. one happened this morning when he stopped by.

    hopefully I can share more with the group before he shuffles off to the next big race.
     
  2. ferrari.ace

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    #2 ferrari.ace, Sep 17, 2008
    Scott,

    In the early 80's when I was a young whippersnapper, just out of high school, I met a guy that had a big influence on me. He was involved with formula 5000's way before the 80's, F5000 was big in the late 60's to mid 70's. I believe the team was Briggs & Fodge. He is well known for his engineering, design and fabrication. a specialist with race cars, Cobras and fuel injection.

    The kicker to your story is the pnumatic valve train project. In the corner of his small, immaculate backyard shop, he had a dyno with a small block Chevy mounted to it. This small block was equipped with pnumatic sprung valves and could turn 12K rpm! It was a project he had engineered and developed. If memory serves me correctly it was backed by Crane Cams.

    Is your friends name Dan? If it's the same person, I haven't seen him for many years. If were talking about the same guy he is truely a legend in the automotive world.


    Adam
     
  3. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 mwr4440, Sep 17, 2008
    I bought an '81 GTB/Si Parts Cat from a guy on Ebay.

    I emailed him once or twice, asked a question or two and one thing led to another.......

    Turns out he was a VERY good friend of Enzo’s and they personally traded many gifts over the years (sent scanned photos and articles to me). This guy has and is slowly liquidating perhaps the finest and most complete collection of Ferrari memorabilia in private hands in the world.

    He had a few interesting things to say about various members of the Ferrari automotive establishment and gave an insight or two into their thinking and beliefs.

    AND although he certainly has the means ........... he NEVER owned a Ferrari.
     
  4. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #4 smg2, Sep 17, 2008
    Yep, the one in the same. Briggs passed away a few yrs back. it's great to be able to learn off someone like him, he's been doing EFI for so long he makes it look stupid simple. I've watched him get a car running and in final tune in less than 2hrs from scratch!

    I could go on, I'll be meeting up with him again today to go to the dyno.
     
  5. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #5 luckydynes, Sep 17, 2008
    what a great guy to have down the street!!! . . . all about performance and sounds like he's done some awesome projects!!!

    cool
     
  6. ferrari.ace

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    #6 ferrari.ace, Sep 18, 2008

    Where are you located Scott? Last I knew Dan was in the Sacramento area. When I met him in around '82 He was living in Grass Valley, CA. where he was operating out of a really cool backyard shop (bat cave!!). Every now and then he would cruise by the shop I was working at, (usually in a cobra) and hang out or borrow a timing light and a wrench. I've come a long way since the little VW shop in the Gold Country! It would really be great to visit with him after all these years. Let me know if we can set something up?


    Adam
     
  7. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #7 smg2, Sep 18, 2008
    currently I'm in Gold River, just off Sunrise blvd & 50, he's on the southside of Sunrise. and now lives up in El Dorado. call me at the shop tomorrow 916-270-2011. He was trying to remember you today when I mentioned it, said he had a hard time remembering what he had for lunch!
     
  8. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 ernie, Sep 18, 2008
    This sounds like I guy I would like to meet. Wonder if I could tag along?
     
  9. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #9 smg2, Sep 18, 2008
    don't see why not, I'll keep you posted.
     
  10. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #10 luckydynes, Sep 18, 2008
    Scott,

    Next time you see him ask what he thinks about Edwardo's pulley/lack of harmonic balancer would ya? I'd really like to try one.

    Cheers
     
  11. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 ernie, Sep 18, 2008
    Cool!

    I just left you a message on your answering machine Scott. I think I can get down there by around lunch time?
     
  12. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #12 luckydynes, Sep 19, 2008
    any update?
     
  13. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #13 smg2, Sep 19, 2008
    he's dropping by this morning I'll ask him about it.

    considering the 348 onward doesn't use one, I'd say with a properly balanced assy you could do the same. although the 348 does have a 'fluid' flywheel assy with spring packs for damping.

    I'll ask Claudio too.
     
  14. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #14 luckydynes, Sep 19, 2008
    thanks . .. most people I've asked responded with "are you nuts?" :) .. . I would think that fluid flywheel is helping and knocking out bearings or busting a crank 'cause I didn't put on a harmonic balancer is not my kind of experiment . . . don't mind doing it 'cause she's spinning 10k though :) . .. Mr. Capo told me "throw that thing away" . . but I also think he followed up with "if you're racing you're never under 5K and that thing only works under 4k" or something like that . . that was back in 2000 though . .my memory's not that good.

    cheers
     
  15. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #15 smg2, Sep 20, 2008
    Alright Dans' response was "with 90* firing angle and flat crank it's not needed, but you need to consider the harmonics from the ignition sequence" given that's it's a 90* cycle for firing angles that really helps, but we'll still have harmonics. bottom line, toss it.

    he did wonder if Ferrari changed the cranks in some way in later yrs, looking over the 360 & 308 crank I have here, nope.
     
  16. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #16 luckydynes, Sep 20, 2008
    Thanks for sharing Scott.

    I was involved in the design and manufacture of an airplane gearbox that was being driven by an automotive engine . .. the gearbox obviously had no dynamic inbalance but we had to have FEA(finite element analysis) done on it to check for any harmonic excitation on the input shaft (don't remember the firing angle or anything though) . . . the length of the shaft is part of the equation . .. . . the guy that I buy my dry sump parts from was concerned about harmonics eating his pumps when I was talking about gear driving it.

    did you mention the fluid in the flywheel of the newer cars?

    I'd like to hear some other experienced opinions on this one . . . harmonic balance (not meaning harmonic balancer) is a completely different animal than just spin balancing isn't it?
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #17 fatbillybob, Sep 20, 2008
    This would make it seem that the voight dampend clutch pack is not needed. I don't understand what you smart guys are talking about but there must be good internal balance dynamically since I was able to race my 348 for about 10 years and many of those with a home made solid flywheel from OEM guts and a static balance of the assembly. I crashed the car long before the motor ever blew up and in fact it is still strong to the best of my knowledge.
     
  18. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #18 luckydynes, Sep 20, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2008
    there's a good data point . . thanks for sharing that . .. your motor blew up the first time I took 'er out FWIW . .. .







    just kidding ;).

    cheers

    edit: any clue how many hrs you have on the motor with the solid flywheel? . . now you're giving me good reason to just take the thing apart :) . . what year did you put it in?
     
  19. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #19 smg2, Sep 20, 2008
    balancing the assy is for simply that, making sure it stays balanced while rotating; same as your tires. the harmonics are introduced from the firing events and timing of them across the rpm range, and the frequency hrtz of the material being used, along with twist, newtons law on that one. one of the best dampeners I've seen for that is the rattler by TCI...http://www.tciauto.com/Products/TechInfo/rattler_tech.asp sadly they don't make one for the Ferrari or are willing to.
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #20 fatbillybob, Sep 20, 2008
    Not sure at all. I think I posted about it here so if you search perhaps that would give you an approximate year.
     

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