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thinking about a 365 gtc/4 as a first Ferrari

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by etip, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. etip

    etip Formula 3

    Apr 4, 2004
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    Eric
    I don't see too much talk of them, but they are reasonably priced, three hundred-some HP, and look good. Why don't people talk about them more? Are they problematic cars??
    This is my first post, so thanks in advance.
     
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  3. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Not bad cars, but the middle step child in Ferrari world. If you want the same noise but want to save an additional $20k, you can get a 365GT4 2+2. Only difference is the body and additional length in the wheelbase.

    The engine can be a pain. The carbs come off to adjust the valves, all 6 of them which most part changers can't seem to synch up.
     
  4. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    I've just been running the numbers on a rough one. It ended up making no sense at all. If you buy one, get one that someone else restored during the boom.

    Pros: V12, roomy, 6 webers

    Cons: Wierd nose, Corvette shape, part/labor costs are high relative to the value of the car.

    The classic 2+2 guys tend to hang out over at http://www.tomyang.net, you should really check that site out.
     
  5. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    The 365GTC/4 is a wonderful car. And, it is the BEST sounding road car Ferrari has ever made period.
     
  6. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    Some may ask why Parkefe would make that declaration:

    The 365gtc/4 engine - Tipo F101 AC 000 - was similar to the Daytona's DOHC Tipo 251 60° V12 with 4390cc and bore/stroke of 81mm x 71mm, but the gtc/4 had 6 side draft Weber 38 DCOE carbs, new heads, wet sump & lower compression ratio of 8.8:1. Side drafts meant lower, wider front end, hood and all - speaking of which was totally Pininfarina design/production, not just design, like Daytona. Clean lines disguising Hell on wheels & munchkins in the back.

    Bottom line, 365gtc/4 - for a first or only Ferrari without getting kicked in the teeth - well-sorted inside and out, especially the mechanicals, is more than likely the most rewarding experience. Believe me, my Ferrari-less ass has had plenty of time to mull things over.
     
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  8. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    The F101 AC was also used in the 365 GT4 2+2. I've driven a couple of C4's and own a GT4. They are very similar cars from the driver's seat (the only visual difference is the GT4 has a teak section around the radio/gearshift. The C4 may be a little more chuckable, but the cars weren't mine and I behaved. They both sound great to us old farts that know what a carb fed, chain driven 12 sounds like.

    If you want understated luxury and many smiles-per-mile as Dr. Tax says, give them both a drive. A well sorted example isn't going to depreciate.
     
  9. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    They look great in black as that minimizes the clown lip front end. If it matters to you, the back seat is useless for people. Its really a 2 seater.
     
  10. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
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    There was a VERY NICE example on Ferrari of Central Florida's showroom floor two weeks ago. Red/black, low miles, well-serviced.

    A recent FORZA article described a recent purchase and subsequent track experience. The GTC is NO track car - an excellent Grand Touring V12, undervalued in today's marketplace, but no track car....
     
  11. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    I owned a C4 in the eqarly 80's, black/black which minimizes the nose. I liked it a lot, it makes the best sound, better than my daytona. It is a GT, not a sports car, and is terrific for a long run. I put 50000 miles on it as my only car for four years, driving between San Diego and LA several times a week. It let me down only once when a mag wheel cracked at the spoke/wheel joint and let the air out of the tire. I did the major service myself, setting the valves, rebuilding the carbs and the whole nine yards. It took three weekends which would have been very enjoyable if it wasnt my only car at the time. It needed one clutch during that period, otherwise maintenance was normal. I drove it four years and sold it for what I paid for it, hard to complain about that. If you have any specific questions i would be pleased to try to remember...
     
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  13. KNanthrup

    KNanthrup Karting

    Jan 14, 2004
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    Additionally, here's some good pictures of the engine being pulled apart and rebuilt. Might be overkill, but interesting none the less.

    http://www.400register.com/register/365GTC4/365GTC4-pictures.asp
     
  14. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
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    I love the 365GTC/4. When I was first considering a ferrari, this was one of my choices, but alas, it would have cost about double the price of my 308GT4. For me, the GT4 was a better financial decision.

    But oh that sound, and those 12 cylinders. I still have a soft spot for them, though, and even though I love my GT4, sometimes I still have that voice inside my head asking what if...

    Dom
     
  15. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    That's not overkill that's awesome!!!

    I'm currently considering a C4 as well. Personally I think it's a beautiful design, and the sound is fantastic. As far as it being a middle step child....maybe so. But so is the 348 suposedly and I loved the one I had.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    My standard spiel on the C4 (I own 15625).
    http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/365gtc4.htm

    Do search on FCHAT for previous threads.

    As the factory intended, this is a wonderful touring car, but not a sports car. I have never had mine on the track, but Jeff Littrell (FCA-Cal chapter) has. He says it holds its own, but clearly was never intended for the track.

    It's been awhile since I have taken a long trip in mine, but when I did, it's very comfortable, albeit louder than a Lexus <g>. HUGE trunk...2 sets of golf clubs and weekend suitcase are no problem. The back seats fold down and there is room there for even more. That's about all the rear seat is good for, though. There is only about 2 inches clearance between back of the front seat and the back seat, when I drive.

    I'm 6'3", with somewhat more legs (34") than torso. Still, there is 3-4 inches of headroom for me. My legs are a bit bent, but I've been in worse cars.

    Parts and service are atrocious. There were only 500 C4s built. Still they hold their value well. On average, C4s have gone up a few percent in the last 6 years, since I bought mine. Don't buy it for that.

    Once set, the points, carbs,and timing seem pretty solid. The C4 has a semi-electronic ignition system in which Dinoplex ignition modules are used to boost the spark. This unloads the points and saves them. The carbs (6 Weber DCOE side drafts) are easy to work on, but tough to synch.

    The sound is great, from idle to redline. I have an exhaust from Stebro, but it's not much different in sound than stock, which I still have. Stock headers...the Stebro is the exhaust only.

    The choice between a 365 GT4 2+2 and a C4 are pretty much personal; I ahev always been surprised that the C4 is considerably more than the GT4 2+2.

    Note that the C4 is the successor (2+2 not withstanding) to the 365 GTC, not the 365 GT 2+2. The GT4 2+2 is the successor to the latter. The C4 is an odd-ball in this sense, given that it's not a coupe.
     
  17. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    great thread.... i love the link with the rebuild pics!!! wow!!!
     
  18. etip

    etip Formula 3

    Apr 4, 2004
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    I appriciate everyone's input. I'm planning on getting a car this summer, so I want to start my search now. I currently have a Porsche 911 SC and want to "upgrade" to a Ferrari. It's nice to see that it is as strong a community as the Porsche crowd.
     
  19. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Don't feel that you have to upgrade, there is nothing wrong with owning both. Several here do.

    Go to events, meet people and try to get a ride/drive in them. Most owners like me are more than happy to share our cars with people that are trying to figure out what they want.

    Best,
    Erik
     
  20. etip

    etip Formula 3

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    Erik, I wasn't planning on getting rid of my SC, just adding another car to the stable. Thanks again for the hospitality. Right now, I'm trying to decide b/w 365 gtc/4, hot rodded 308, 348, or an old 246. I know they are very different cars, so I'm trying to figure out which is right for me. I'm leaning toward the 365 or 308 as a first car. Any reccomendations??
     
  21. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Very different cars. The C4 is a true GT car (think 928). 3x8's are more sports cars (less GT than your 911) and have varying degrees of power based on the year. A 246 is lighter than a 308 and very tossable. Drive each one, figure out what works best for you.

    Ferrari folks tend to be the opposite of P-bug owners, in that we aren't always trying to mod our cars so a hot rodded 308 will be more appealing to a much smaller group if you ever try and sell it. The C4 has the potential to be expensive to fix if something goes wrong, but my GT4 has cost me about $2500 a year in maintenance and fixing things up that previous owners never got around to.
     
  22. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Let me throw a curveball your way. Since you are already considering a 2+2, how about an early 456 manual? The prices have really come down lately. You'll still take a depreciation hit, unlike the 365, but you get a much more modern vehicle.
     
  23. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    If it will be your first Ferrari get a 12 such as the C4 ! You will get to experience the 12 cylinder song that the little 8s don't have.
     
  24. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    How about a nice 330 GT 2+2?

    It's much simpler (and therefore less expensive) to work on than later 12 cylinder cars that have side draught carbs and four camshafts. But it has all of the right smells and sounds--and speed--that define Ferrari ownership.

    --Matt
     
  25. etip

    etip Formula 3

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    Matt,
    Is that your car?? It is beautiful!!! What year is it? I'm torn between a classic antique F-car and a screaming sports car. That 330 is amazing. I think it may win in the antique war!!!
     
  26. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Thank you very much, etip. That's my 1967 Series II.

    These are fantastic cars. 300 horsepower from 4 liters. My car is a late 330, and has power steering and air conditioning. The power steering is the best I've ever used. Plus, the sound from the engine is simply fantastic.
     
  27. winston

    winston Karting

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    After having driven several Delta Dashes, both in an Acura Integra and a 456M, the C4 has a wonderful sound.
     
  28. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You should have been at Barrett-Jackson in Phoenix, seemed like they were giving the 365's away for free, when you bought a $135,000 Corvette.
     

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