Thinking about a 575

Walter- Mine has F1 and has been completely reliable for the 4.5 years I have owned her. Need a garage mate for your Maseratis?

Nothing like the system that was on the Maseratis prior to 07 or so.

 

Walter – The F1-System has been introduced in the 355 for the first time and I am not sure if I would by a 355 with F1. The 360 had the second generation F1 system which is quite reliable and seems to work very well. Then Ferrari adapted the F1 system for the 12 cylinder cars with the 575M as the next evolution step. Personally I think it is very reliable and I do not know of any issues with the F1 system itself.

Clutch life might be an issue and there are several threads here about clutch life. I had to replace the clutch on my previous 575M with about 33 000 km for CHF 7 000 (EUR 5 – 6 000).

Now I have a 575M HGTC which has an improved F1 system (faster gear changes, better clutch handling resulting in longer clutch life). I now have nearly 50 000 km on the clock with still the first clutch (bought the car with 39 000 km).

For me the question would not be to buy a manual or F1 but to buy a “standard” or a HGTC 575M. If you are able to find a 575M with HGTC fitted from the factory, I clearly would go for the HGTC. It is such an improved car! I assume a 575M with retrofitted HGTC would still have the same clutch but might have the better F1 software (not sure).

I also have/had Maseratis. I still (or again) have a 3200 and had a 4200 but the Ferrari is such a better car! Though I still love my 3200!

Hope this helps a bit. Enjoy the search!

Markus

PS: Are you located in Germany? There is a black 575M HGTC in the south of Germany that I test drove. PM me before you should buy this car.

 

There are very few regular EU 575 manual so if you can find one and are prepared for the large premium then do it - or buy a 550 - otherwise the 575 F1 is just fine - clutches can last over 50 000 km - one minor weakness is the fork lever under the reverse lever but Hills have a EUR 100 replacement part which is an easy DIY

 

Markus- The 575M retrofit kits do include the HGTC F1 software upgrade, which was ordered by VIN to ensure it was compatible.

The original clutch is still in my 575M, has 33,000 kms on it, and still has 13 mm of play on the throw-out bearing pin, so lots of life left.

Clutch life is largely a factor of driver technique, whether the car has three pedals or F1.

 

Terry – Thanks for the clarification! Your knowledge about these cars is very impressive!!

My mechanic once mentioned that the HGTC uses a different clutch (mechanically) and that the engine might be closer to the SA/612 engine than to the 575M. But I am absolutely not sure about that.

Re clutch life (I do not want to start another clutch or F1/manual discussion…): In stop and go traffic the HGTC software engages the clutch at lower rpms than the standard 575M. Where my 575M usually fully engaged the clutch at about 1 500 to (sometime even) 2 000 rpm, it is possible in my HGTC to engage the clutch at about 1 000 rpm. Quite similar as if you would drive a manual.

On my (manual) Maserati I have 70 000 kms on the original clutch. Looks that I am better in using a manual clutch than the F1 clutch.

Sorry, as mentioned, I don’t want so start another clutch thread

Markus

 

Markus- The early 612s used exactly the same clutch as the 575M, Superamerica, 550s, and 456s, including the 575M HGTC. Even the F512M. Your mechanic may have been thinking of the clutch for the 612 Sessantas and OTOs, which have the dual plate clutch of the 599. That clutch is really tough. Unfortunately not easily adapted to earlier cars because it matches up with the 599/OTO transaxle case.

The algorithms in the HGTC software do extend clutch life, and are similar to the F1A system algorithms in the Superamerica and early 612.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=262238

 

Terry – Thank you! I had no clue that the same clutch is also in the 512 TR and 512 M! Very interesting.

Thanks

Markus

 

terry...

so i take it that it is possible to simply upgrade to the hgtc f1 ecu and get faster shifting?

if so, any idea of the cost?

tia,
mike

 

Mike- Unfortunately not. I have a new HGTC F1 ECU/TCU sitting about 18" from me and it did not work on the person's car from whom I bought it. Believe an actuation ECU will also be requred. Total cost of the two would be ~$4500. Five minute job to change, but then you need to have some SD2 work done to transfer history and settings to the new ECU/TCU or reset and start from scratch.

If I can figure out how to make it work, Eric355 may be able to take old TCUs, even 360 TCUs or Maserati TCUs, and rewrite the HGTC data to the old TCU. A work in progress as my car slowly comes up to HGTC standards.

 

Taz great stuff. Have read about Eric's work and it is very interesting. I know you do without asking but, please keep us in the loop.

Had mine out last night enjoying cooler Florida air. Ran around some back roads with a close friend with his new slightly boosted Shelby 500. It's very close and of course no comparison in the ride and handling. Back in the day spent time in a '69 428 Cobrajet Mustang, the new 500 is a nice retro Musclecar.

Bill
FL

 

thx terry.

so if i understand you...in converting from f1 to hgtc f1...would need hgtc f1 ecu AND an "actuation ecu"...is there a special name for that or is that it?

regarding "you need to have some SD2 work done to transfer history and settings to the new ECU/TCU or reset and start from scratch."

i assume this can be reset by simply disconnecting/reconnecting battery...starting with everything off...and letting it idle for 10 minutes?

thx,
mike

 

Mike- That is it, I think. If you look at the 575 Assembly Number vs Serial Number thread, all the HGTC parts are spelled out in one of the posts.

Come to think of it, here it is so you do not have to look.
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thank you terry.

daniel from ricambi was also kind enough to provide me with:


The HGTC F1 ECU is 211426, and runs $2077. It is a special order item, not in our inventory.
The main ignition computer is also changed over to 211423 and runs $3229. It is also special order item, not in our inventory.


mike

 

Mike- Affirmative, both likely come directly from Maranello. Like I said, 211426 is only 18" from me and I hope to figure out how to make it work one of these days.

Incidentally, you would need two Motronic ECUs if that needed changing, so 211423 is not a Motronic ECU. Eric and I have not figured out what it is so far, but it is VIN specific. It may be 211426 with programming for various versions of the 575M, with and without the AN 52556 wiring harnesses and steering position sensor.

 

HI Taz

Great to have you back.

Do you know if the F1 ecu in the FHP cars was in any way different to the standard 575m F1?

cheers

 

No, they were the same. There were FHPs fitted with all the early shock ECUs, even 183960. My early 04 FHP had 201673, but I swapped it for 197211/201674, which, funnily enough, was marked as FHP. Who knows why?

The 550 FHP package did come with its own FHP shock ECU.
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Thanks Taz


Where is the ECU located?

 

terry,

the above listed parts from daniel was in response to my inquiry as to what needs to be swapped out to go from 575 to 575 hgtc f1...

you said "211426 is only 18" from me and I hope to figure out how to make it work one of these days."

perhaps all you need in addition to 211426 if i understand daniel/ricambi correctly is:

"The main ignition computer is also changed over to 211423 and runs $3229. It is also special order item, not in our inventory."

total for both about $5K...?looks to be plug and play after a reset.

would love to drive a 575 w hgtc to see if 'change' is worth the $$.

 

F1 ECU/TCU is behind the carpet under an access panel behind the driver's seat. The F1 pump relay is the left hand of the two relays above the F1 ECU/TCU

211423 is actually the Motronic ECU for cars after Assembly Number 55769 after further research, but you would actually need two of them, which makes it kind of expensive. Plus the bulletin states they are VIN specific. Like I said, Eric and I have not figured out exactly how to make this work yet.
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So in a RHD car it would be behind the passenger seat?

 

Affirmative, should have said port side behind the seats to leave no doubt.

 

Walter: I have a 2004 F1 on my 575 with 8900 miles. To date, I have not had any problems with it and find it very reliable. I usually keep it in "Sport"