Greetings, friends in Dinos I have just now hooked up with this chat group. It sounds as if some of you feel that you have encountered a kind of dead end. I recently purchased a '69 246 GT-L and have some plans for it. I am a humble newbie. Of course, I love the car. It lives ! May I tell you a wee story and then end this message with a question .. one of many I would so appreciate you helping me with in future. Simply, all sorts of interesting details skipped over here, for the first time in our married life, I informed my wife that I had made a major decision without discussion with her. The decision was to buy a Dino. For us this bordered on a most precarious decision, and so I stipulated what I hoped would be a comfort to her. (She was very anxious, but in the end she IS a car person.) I told her that I would only buy an early Dino L-series and that since I had no hope of finding one she had little to worry about. By the strangest of coincidences one appeared for sale out of Vermont. I bought it just in time; the owner/dealer said that the phone rang like crazy for the rest of the day - most calls from Europe. He offered that same day to buy it back for $10K more than I paid. Our first drive in the car bothered me a little. I knew that the car was under-powered according to many, but I was sorry it was quite that sluggish. After a few miles we broke down. Upon examination we found that the fuel pump had been wired directly to the fuel pump and we burned it out. (only one pump installed) I left the car with a fellow Alfa Romeo Club member and mechanic. When I picked it up, he had replaced the pump and tuned up the carbs. And there, as if by magic, were the missing horses. It was a new car, a sprint car - my favorite. While I might enjoy an Autobahn Ferrari, there is nowhere in Kettle Moraine Wisconsin to ring out a 599 or the like. However, the country roads around here were made for the Dino. No surprise to you I'll bet, the second gear syncho had pretty much had it. In any case, I am planning on a paint job and transmission rebuild over the winter. I am hoping that the car will still be valued over my investment. I want to start planning on the trans work now. And so, my question is : where do I go to acquire transmission parts? Of course, I can fish around; however, I thought it best to ask the experts first. I look forward to your suggestions. I would appreciate as well anyone who can share some details about the early 246. (#001474) Number of fuel pumps for example. In addition I do not have a tool kit or any literature at all. Can anyone help me there? I guessed I lied about having one question. OK, I admit it : is there any "easy" way to produce some more horses. I really am happy with the performance, but a little more grunt would be nice. Thanks for any help at all. Best wishes, David
Welcome David; what a great intro! I hope you find camaraderie in kindred spirits here! How bout some photos to get it rolling?
Greetings and Welcome, David. Don't give up on the gearbox just yet! We have a number of very capable owners & maintainers on this site, who will likely chime in here shortly. Wait for the wealth of info to pour in from fellow chatters before you condemn the little gem. I am not an expert, but have encountered the infamous second gear synchro anomaly on a number of Ferraris. Lube, temp, and technique are factors in the function...or malfunction...of the recalcitrant synchronizer. In the meantime, here are a couple of suggestions. Avoid second gear until the box has warmed up a bit. Just accelerate enough in first so as to avoid lugging in third. After driving five, or so, miles, you can begin to shift into second with a deliberate 'forward-over-forward' motion. Let the gate be your guide. As you push forward out of 1st, the shifter should center itself in the 2-3 plane. As soon as it does, continue forward into 2nd. Until you become comfortable with shifting, exaggerate each movement of the lever. It will soon become familiar. Warning! A. Speed shifting is not a good thing! B. Agressive, higher rpm downshifts into second (or first!) are also not good. It may sound cool to rap it down through the gears, but use the brakes, instead. They are a fraction of the cost of a gearbox, and a whole lot easier to refresh. Now, at your earliest convenience, set aside considerable blocks of time & read all of the 206/246 threads. Yup, it'll take several days/weeks/months; there's a plethora of essential info available. Also use the Search function, above, to research specific topics. Finally, keep an eye on the 308/328/Mondial section; parts, procedures & pictures are frequently interchangeable or applicable to our Dinos. Enjoy the toy! Cheers, Coop
I rebuilt my gearbox a couple years ago. Well, a mechanic did the work, I sourced the parts. Before I was done I bought synchros from superformance.co.uk, bought some of the bearings from FerrariUk, and some from Dennis McCann (www.allferrariparts.com) and some direct from SKF. I may even have another set of them lying around somewhere, and if I don't, Eurotrash might. I didn't need gears, they were ok, but we replaced everything else that we could. Good luck on your adventure, and welcome. Dave M.
I would second all of Coop comments, especially the shift technique before the engine has run for several minutes. The weak 2nd gear synchros are a fact of life, so get used to this quirk. Treat your transmission with respect at all times. Gears are VERY expensive. As the mechanic that did my engine rebuild in 01-02 told me, the transmission should be viewed to some degree as an antique! He actually warned me against downshifting from 3rd into 2nd whenever possible, and as Coop said, use the brakes instead. As an L series owner, I have larned, sometimes the hard way, that these particular cars share many parts with the 206; hence be sure that any parts you purchase are specific for/are actually usable in an L-series car, vs a later (esp a later US car). Feel free to PM me with any specific questions. Welcome! ----------Bob (#00462)
What is the value of an L series tool kit with the correct pebble, brown texture tool pouch and all tools? Serious Q, not an offer to buy/sell as I don't want the mods to over-react again and close the thread. .
it has been so long since ANY dino toolkit has sold on ebay, it is hard to tell. i can not recall a single pebble brown textured toolkit selling on ebay in the years i have been there buying dino junk
by the way, david, welcome. it is alwats nice to have someone new join us and give us the opportunity to rehash old stuff again i have a manual set on ebay and ferrari-ads currently. if you haven't looked at prices before, be prepared to have eyes pop out of your head.
Welcome David from a (regrettably) ex Dino owner. Hope you'll consider adding your information to the Dino Register (http://www.dinoregister.com/dr.php). Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any owner information there from 71 to date on yours.
Glad your pleased about your purchase. The first time I drove mine I was pretty excited to. Don't worry about the "underpower" thing. Firstly use it for the smaller road journeys as you say it will be a pleasure. Secondly remember you are driving a work of art and it goes faster than the stuff sitting on your walls. This car is recognised by all as probably one of the best looking cars of all time. Be prepared for people to stop you in garages and compliment it. And even if it needs abit of work sounds like you bagged yourselfe a good deal. Have fun and lets see a pic.
Hi David: I know we've chatted before - good to see you up on Ferrarichat. My first drive in the Dino was also full of disappointments because my car was in need of total restoration, smelled funky and the electrical system was spotty. It sounds like you've already got me beat and best of all, you've got your "L". I just want to refute one point of view you raised. I've driven several V12 Ferraris including a Ferrari Daytona and raced a variety of formula race cars including Historic F1s and I don't think the Dino is underpowered based on my experiences and senses. In my opinion, the Dino comes up short in 4th or 5th at higher cruising speeds where a Daytona continues to pull. However, at lower speeds a Dino is surprisingly quick and pulls nicely given its power to weight ratio. Sure, it's not vomit inducing power but it is not under-powered in my opinion. Come to Seattle and drive my "L" if you want an idea of what they feel like when they are sorted out. Make it quick though as the rains will soon be upon us! Cheers...Keith
My Thanks ! to all who responded to my post and all others who read it. Without reviewing your responses again, I will try to respond to various points that were made. Maybe I will go back to them before I send this; and so, in no particular order : Down shifting has been natural to me since I was 16. I even down shifted the family's 1960 Impala automatic - yes, with an appropriate rev in neutral. The Chevy had a small eight; my father proudly insisted that only the highest octane fuel be used. It remains a mystery to me even now how I came to love European cars and Road Racing. My father was diametrically in opposition to every father of a car guy I had even encountered. Oh how I envy them. In any case, we will avoid that down shifting habit. * Is double clutching advised ?* I do not know of a way to tell now if any new gears are in order. I am hunching that synchros are the problem. This condition is ever so reminiscent of the classic 5 speed Alfa problem. I never speed shift. Indeed, my habit is to hesitate in neutral before engaging the next gear. It might be fun to occasionally do a light speed get-away, but I empathize too much with the physics involved and so avoid doing that. Yes, we have used the first to third technique while warming the transmission. (BTW, I have followed Keith's advice re lubricants) There are times when the trans behaves quite well. Surprisingly. However, usually there is a grind going into second and third. Needless to say, this is blood curdling scary. In total consideration then, I hope that gears are not needed. As soon as I work out the how-to, I will send photos. They will include/focus on areas of concern. Again, the car will be repainted this winter. I am very much attracted to the yellow Dinos; however, since the red of our car is pleasingly dark, I may just keep the original color. (The orange red of a line of Alfas, for example, I find ugly ugly ugly. (My Duetto race car is painted Guards Red; people often say, "Gorgeous ! Nothing like an Alfa red." I never correct them.) I really am satisfied with the power of the Dino. You'll not hear me complain now that it is running well. A Story : A serious car enthusiast got wind of the fact that we acquired a Dino L series. We live in East Troy/Mukwonago WI. Of course, our car is extremely odd for these parts. And so, when a fellow from very near by Muskego Emailed me asking to see our Dino, I was surprised. We were surprised too that he had been tipped to our ownership by the car guy and even more surprised to hear that he also had an L- series Dino with earlier numbers. His problem is that their good family friends own a Euro car shop and is very well qualified as a mechanic; however, the fellow has had the Dino in his shop for many years now. He keeps finding little things to do on the car. Rust : I cannot find any on my car. Before spending a year in Vermont, the car lived in California. In addition, we bought an AirChamber for the car. Janice is the editor of our "Alfanatic News Letter." Soon we will run a photo review of the unit along with step by step assembly notes. We have had other "bags" over the years; this one is terrific because one can drive in and out with only a simple unzippering. What with our plans for refurbishing the car, this is not a good time to think about further expenses; however, I would still like to know of any available tools and original manuals for the Dino. The tip about the 206 cross over parts and the 308 as well is a good suggestion. I will try to research all of this out. I certainly have not read all there is about Ferraris/Dinos, but I have yet to find a picture - and sometimes even references - to the L-series in the books I have looked at. (I saw a "'71 246 - L" in a recent HEMMINGS. Can that be right - a '71?) What is "Dino junk"? ;-) Oh, yes !! We have already gotten lots of looks and smiles. Best of all Janice is in love with the car both in driving and aesthetics. No conflict there except who drives. She's a car person. Wspeers : What do you mean by "a manual set"? I will check Ebay. Wow. Years worth of back reading ! I had better get started. Best wishes and many thanks, David [email protected]
David and Janice, Welcome to the club. Sounds like you are quick learners and have already picked up some of the Magic. Too bad that you have no books at all. You really need the owner's manual, the parts manual and Walace's translation of the shop manual. Originals are very dear. Repros are reasonable. dino71 did a repro of the early shop manual that looks pretty good and seems reasonable. He is French and his car is a 71 Dino 246 GT so info should be good for your car. Repros of the other books come up occasionally. Internet. You only need the tools if you wish to show the car. Same for the jack. Quality of both is God Awful. Car falls off jack and tools can't hold a candle to Craftsman. If you are a DIY guy you alredy have most tools. If not, you need a deep plug socket, a 6" extension and a Craftsman 3/8 lever switch ratchet. Nice to look at plugs now and again. 10, 12, 13, 14mm combination wrenches are nice (2 each) along with a multi blade screwdriver and a pair of pliers. Get a Japanese small car scissors jack from a bone yard. Have someone grind it down if needed. Check age of all your tires including the spare. If over 10 years old, get new ones. Spare too! Transmission is typical of older cars that have not had the best of service. Odds are that there is nothing wrong with synchros. Very unlikely that anything is wrong with gears or bearings. Very likely that shift linkage both outside and inside the gearbox is not set up properly. Problems with both 2nd and 3rd says outside linkage or shift lever casting problems. You will have to accept that 2nd will never get as good as a German or Japanese gearbox. There is always going to be a warm up required. But as soon as the engine temp is above 140F you should be in business. Lots of comments about oils but I find that Ferrari specs are best. Plain old gear oil. Double clutching seems to help but it is probably just better timing. You will find the infamous left turn stutter sooner or later. It is real, it is a charastic of the carbs, When you get it, you are going too slow. Only happens in sharp left turns, when braking with a trailing throttle. Idle jets run out of gas. Cure is to keep engine revs up so main jets are working. There is no cure. Carbs were designed to run with float bowl in rear, like V-12s. When used on transverse V-6s Ferrari screwed up. Only happens when puddling along so forget it. Bottom line, sounds like you have a great new toy. It has to be driven to keep the juices flowing. Both for you and the car. Drive. And send us a picture or two. John
Welcome to the Dino site. As you will soon learn, this place is a wealth of info with many willing owners offering to share their expertise. There are many differences between the "L" and the later models that goes far from the visual differences. I have just finished the restoration on my "L". The task was made much easier due to the input of other owners such as Keith. Should you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Post some pictures, we'd love to see the car. Regards, Steve Anderson 00988
David - welcome. I agree with everyone's comments, and in particular, those of John C., the sage from Santa Barbara. Based on your description, I would be extremely hesitant to dismantle the gear box. As John suggested, when brand new these gear boxes were poor examples, and VW, Corvette, and all other sports cars, save early British, produced better transmissions. Hence, I posit that if any of us with significant belt time in a Dino were to drive your car we would likely observe that yours is "normal." Warm the box up, search this forum for better choices of slippery gear lube, pay attention to the resting position of the stick within the gate (to address John C.'s thoughts about adjustment), and get use to double clutching. Yes, double clutching is how one drives the Dino. Shifting up merely requires proper timing; shifting down requires double clutching to do it right. The clunky, antique nature of the gear box is part of the charm (fun) of driving a 40 year old car. Anyone can get in a F1 430 and drive like Schumacher, but only Dino driver's can emulate Fangio. I would encourage that you do nothing with the car for the first year. Drive it and enjoy it. Don't worry about 40-year-old stuff until you have grown familiar with it. Some time in the future you will want to take if off the road for a thorough refreshing. Then you will really know Dinos. By the way, I do not believe that there are cross-over parts with the 308. There are many cross over trim items with the 246, but few mechanical cross-overs between the early 246-L and the later models. Transmissions, for example, are entirely different. Furthermore, the parts manuals that most obtain reveal parts for the later models....be very careful when ordering parts that you deal with experts that know the different. Have fun. Jim S.
David and all, I made a mistake in yesterday's post concerning documents. FerrariChat's dino71 has a nice repro of the OWNERS MANUAL and that is the first thing you need. I said Shop Manual in yesterday's post and my apologies to everyone including dino71. I second Jim's warning about L series cars. The gearbox is completely different and you need to take great care getting the right shop book and any replacement parts. Adjustments though are basically the same. John
