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Thoughts on education..

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by bergxu, Jan 8, 2007.

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  1. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

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    #1 bergxu, Jan 8, 2007
    Earlier today, a friend and I got into a debate on which type of college one is more likely to receive a "better education" at. While I understand that your education is what YOU make of it, I am of the mind that you receive better schooling at a small university versus a large one. Not saying there is a difference due to the numbers in enrollment, just that smaller schools tend to allow students to have more intimate discussions with their professors and that profs at small, private schools are generally more willing to spend more time with students outside of class if clarification on something is needed.

    My friend also argued that schools like Harvard and Yale are only exclusive because of money. Maybe that's true, I wouldn't necessarily discount it (G.W. Bush) however there has to be more to it than that. There is a reason why those schools are considered to be the best in the country, because "exclusivity" can only take you so far. My friend went to the University of Cincinnati, a public school with 35,000+ enrollment while I went to Xavier University, a small, private school with about 4,000 enrollment. I spent the first half of my freshman year at UC and didn't like it,as I preferred smaller classes than 700 students. His argument towards that is smaller, expensive schools have professors there to babysit their students while at large schools, the student is expected to do their work without much intervention from his prof. I agree with the second half of his argument, however the whole babysitting thing doesn't quite fly. After all, is it the professor or YOU who is doing the homework? Is there something wrong in preferring to be able to have a professor available more frequently at a small school? Does that mean I'm a dumbass because I want to know as much as there is to know about a topic, or because I might want something further elaborated on outside of class?? I told my friend that while I obviously can't change what he thinks in his gut, I think I was better educated than he. And someone from an Ivy....better educated than I...

    What's the concensus here? Anyone on the board who went to a large university, I mean no offense here. It just wasn't my cup o' tea. I felt that compared to the quality of teaching I observed at U of Cincinnati, I received a much better education at a small school like Xavier. I think it was when my English professor at UC said "I expect you to attend class every session.... unless of course you have basketball practice.". That got me thinking. Oh, and that was in 1999 and most likely is the only thing I ever remember a teacher at UC saying ;)
     
  2. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    #2 Auraraptor, Jan 9, 2007
    Size is relative.

    Quality and expectations are paramount.

    What is a quick marker of such?

    Really hard to them as a singular trait. But, go to the extremes, sit in a class at [x] and [y]. See for yourself.

    Let's just say there is a HUGE difference in what is expected of the students to just 'know' at a school whose average SAT is/was around 1100 and one whose is/was around 1500. (I know, they changed the SAT now)

    Size is not important for intro classes anyway. They are just intro, *in theory* you will learn in detail in later (and most always) smaller classes.

    That does not mean one cannot be amazing at the earlier, its just statistically less likely.
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 DGS, Jan 9, 2007
    The biggest difference is college itself.

    High School (and many state run schools) are assembly lines. (Move 'em in, move 'em out, here's your paper, now go away.)

    A tape recorder could get a high school diploma: read and regurgitate.

    In college, you have to learn how to learn.
    (Which is why some state colleges are only "high school part II".)

    When you hit college, you have to learn to connect the dots -- to put different knowledge together. To solve a calculus problem, you have to apply a trig formula. Apply history to understanding literature. Et cetera.

    I went to a medium small private college, which did *not* have a lot of private time with the professors. The profs spoke to several hundred students in lectures, then you had 30 or 40 in an interactive section with a grad student teaching assistant. Heck, most of the profs didn't speak an understandable form of english. ;)

    This particular college would let anybody in, would take their tuition money, and then promply flunk out half of them.

    This is known as the "sink or swim" method.

    But consider: My freshman year of college, an industry lecturer predicted that entire computers would be put on an integrated circuit chip. We laughed at him. (The college computer was the size of a basketball court.)

    Whatever you learn in college is going to get overwritten by subsequent events. This happens faster in the technologies, but even law students studying Pinnell's Case from AD 1602 or so will need to know if the supreme court overturned it last week.

    You need to learn how to teach yourself. College doesn't spoon-feed you.

    So, large college or small: as long as it isn't a refuge for rich kids to avoid the "real world" for four more years, any college is going to be a significant change from high school.
     
  4. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
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    #4 1_can_dream, Jan 9, 2007
    I'm at a large university and I have found that I'm more of a number than a student. Which in some cases has it's advantages but at the moment it is a hurdle that I'm having to overcome. I'm currently trying to teach myself "how to learn" so to speak and it's very much the "sink or swim" way of thought like someone else mentioned. I pretty much waltzed through high school (which I'm sure many of the members on here did) and now it's biting me in the ass when it comes to college. This is the only part that I wish I was in a smaller university. The only problem is I don't want to switch universities, hopefully I can get over this little hurdle because also as someone else said the classes will get smaller the more specific my major gets, so I'm not worried about getting a quality education or one-on-one time with professors later down the road when the courses get more involved.
     
  5. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Veteran
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    #5 Veedub00, Jan 9, 2007
    Does undergrad matter anyways? As long as its a 4 year school, does it really matter how big or small it is? The only thing that matters is you getting good grades there. Alot of kids go to a certain school because of the football team or their friends are going there anyways.

    I would say larger universities get more money to play with so they may have better facilities and specialized programs that smaller schools would not have. This may or may not lead to a better education once you are in your major.

    Grad school is a different story altogether.
     

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