Thoughts on interior carbon additions

Just curious what you have, can you post more pics of your car?

 

Grammar police: You're an idiot.

No from me if she were mine, but if you like it, go for it. I have some mods on my 575M overhead panel (HomeLink), but also have a stock one on the shelf.

 

John,

How much would upgrading your 599's dome cover to CF cost vs keeping the matt "soft touch" coated original cover?

BTW, most owners aren't aware since the dome cover is not usually touched by hand but its coating is one and the same as the coating used for all Ferraris' transmission buttons (R, AUTO, and Euro-only FC) on the center console /bridge that usually gets sticky and messy leaving gooey black residue on fingers. Likewise for the cigarette lighter / ash tray cover on the console. I'm not sure if Sticky No More has replacements for those items.

Similar "soft touch" coating was applied by suppliers to Mercedes Benz for the Hazard Light and Door Lock/Unlock button receptacle on my '07 SL55-AMG's dashboard center and after 13 years that coating has now turned a bit sticky and messy. My previous '06 Cayenne Turbo S also had receptacles on the dashboard and console with the same coating.

Whomever made and sold those coatings to Ferrari, MB and Porsche must've made a "killing" on sales without providing any long-term exposure report to the OEM engineers re how stable those coatings would remain after years of exposure to heat and UV rays. That coating probably outgassed some of its ingredients when exposed to heat and UV that would've contaminated the cars' cabins with noxious gases or worst, toxins! That's evident when the inside of one's windshields and windows show rainbow-colored haze.

Butch

 

What about just getting the carbon GTO paddles?

 

Very true. And the suppliers, and the manufacturers, certainly Ferrari, have continued to create and use these coatings for years/decades after the faults become evident.

BTW I have never heard a satisfactory explanation of the science behind their degradation, unless it is universal/random. People have posited light and heat, as well as cleaning products and overuse/residue from human touch. When I bought my 2004 575 in 2015, the bonnet/hood catch and fuel button were sticky, and the dealer changed them for new OEM parts. They are now sticky. The car has been in a cold, dark garage for maybe around 2160 of the approximately 2200 days I have owned it, and on the remaining days, it's not that hot in London and these switches have no exposure to UV. I have touched the bonnet catch maybe 10 times.

 

Unfortunately, it is what it is, I’m planning on stripping all the plastic out of my 08 612 this winter and sending to stickyrx to have a permanents fix

 

Darius- I am pretty sure it is humidity. No stickies for 12 years in Albuquerque, but now that I am in Tennessee a year and a half, she is really getting the stickies.

 

John- We got 40% in Albuquerque when it was raining, usually much lower. Every June, we would see at least one day with 1% humidity. Low enough to curl your contact lenses.

 

Gents,

I'll provide my opinion based on years of my collaboration with NASA M&PE (Materials & Processes Eng'g) Lab engineers for selection of thermoplastic and elastomer materials for products I invented and designed for the International Space Station that EVA Astronauts handle outside the ISS and inside their confined living an operational quarters.

The sticky item has a rubber-based compound coating that provides a 'luxurious' soft tactical feel as opposed to the sensation of touching a hard thermoplastic surface. However being made of some type of rubber elastomer, it has a shelf life or a limit on its longevity of stability before ambient conditions and/or exposure to human hand oils plus cleaning fluids / conditioners used on interiors cause its deterioration or degradation causing it to lose a few of its ingredients due to outgassing and/or react negatively from chemical reactions.

To determine the stability of all types of rubber compounds, NASA and SAE both have their own standards of tests they conduct based on specific conditions. Yet in the case of stability in special ambient conditions, eg, the near vacuum of space and higher UV concentration plus existence of AO or Atomic Oxygen (a highly reactive group of oxygen atoms with unpaired electrons), rubber tends to behave differently with faster deterioration. Typically, NASA mandates a requirement for 30 years of stability prior to approval of any material used in specific applications, but how can one prove a materials longevity and stability for such a length of time.

NOTE: I used to argue with their M&P engineers about this mandate when at that time (late 80's, early 90's), the US space program hadn't had 30 years of solid background yet!

So they designed experiments using variable conditions that they theorized equate to 30 years of usage. That's where the problems we see and experience with sticky coatings have become evident. Whoever may be the supplier of that "soft touch" rubberized compound had not conducted the proper longevity tests and exposure stability experiments to correctly determine its true shelf / usage life.

More often than not, OEM engineers rely on the tests and certifications provided by their suppliers for expediency rather than conduct reliability tests on their own. However for products we designed and supplied to Boeing, NASA and other ISS partners, we mandated conducting our own qualification tests before certifying any material for its intended usage. After all, we just couldn't remove and replace parts while the ISS orbits in Low Earth Orbit without launching a $500B Space Shuttle to carry replacement parts for EVA astronauts to reinstall.

As has been said recently, "Trust, but verify"!

Suffice it to say that during my collaboration with NASA M&PE, one of our customer's hired rubber expert / scientist consultant did declare to me that the 'state of the art' when it comes to rubber elastomers remain to be some form of "black magic"! There remains much more to be discovered and learned about the science of rubber formulations. That's why Michelin, Pirelli and other tire suppliers continue to introduce "better and improved" tire rubber compounds almost every year or so.

Thanks for "sticking' with me through the foregoing explanation.

 

My interior has never had anything but a damp towel to get the dust off.

 

Terry,

In the long run, demineralized or 'soft' water with a few drops of mild soap may be the best liquid cleaner for leather, rubber and plastics as has been your experience; less expensive too. There's just too much risk when using chemical cleaners given how they might attack / react negatively against the materials being cleaned, unless appropriate tests have proven otherwise.

In the aerospace industry I had worked in, it's mandated that most forms of stainless steel undergo the passivation process after finish manufacturing to impart a passive surface impervious to corrosion. Yet de-ionized water which is used to clean off the passivating chemicals can actually cause rust corrosion on passivated stainless steel if immersed in de-ionized water for a duration exceeding the recommended cleaning time. I've seen rust form on finished machined and passivated 316 and 15-5PH stainless steel parts after just two hours of immersion in de-ionized water.

I'm finally taking my 599 HGTE to my dealer to have them remove and replace the sticky buttons and center console bezel with Sticky No More or equivalent versions. Those buttons finally got so bad that the printed letters have been obscured by the clumped sticky coating. My car is now 10-years old and it took that long to get unbearably bad!

While that's progressing, I've also asked them to remove the HGTE-specific front grille and replace it with an OEM GTO mesh grill (last one available in Ferrari NA stock).

 

Actually John, it was the pictures of your car with the GTO mesh grille that convinced me to go ahead and call my F-SB dealer's Parts Manager. He found the last one in Ferari's North American stock plus he gave me a Ferrari Club of America member's discount.

Including all the minor repairs, the elapsed time will be a bit over two weeks so they provided me with a loaner, another "F" car in bright red with a white top. A 500L; oh well, better than no car at all.

 

That's funny, I thought I got the last one last Spring! Anyway, they look great and also provide more protection for the radiator and everything else. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

If it were me i would skin the engine bay panels in carbon fibre. I had it carried out on my first Cali T as it wasnt an OEM option on this model. Total cost was just under £1K, but the result was awesome and helped sell the car when the time came.

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A few more of the Cali T engine bay.

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Finally finished. The guy did a great job, just a bit tricky when the weave goes around circular parts, ( on the air intakes ).

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Honestly out of the two cars, i would say the Cali T got the hotter after normal or hard driving. Remember theres 2 stinking hot turbos under there? The 599 is much the cooler of the two cars. I would have to leave the garage door open for at least 3 hrs after using the Cali T, the 599 doesnt get anyway near as hot.
The skinned panels are too far away from the direct heat to cause any discolouration??