Thoughts on my shop wanting to chargeme for a part he broke

Very common for the Mechanic to find the end of the stock vacuum pump shaft broken off when it's removed from the engine:

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but the way that you wrote it is a little odd -- if he said he "found it broken" = OK (but I don't see how a Mechanic "broke" it). A stock replacement has a good chance of breaking again IMO. See this thread (especially post #14) and the threads that it references:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/vacuum-pump-on-tr.386800/#post-141830176

for an improved replacement shaft with a much better design in the o-ring groove area to prevent (fatigue fracturing from reverse bending stress) breaking. Or do a search on "vacuum pump shaft" in the Boxers/TR/M section, and you'll find many threads on this (known) issue.

 

Just because a shop is working with your car does not mean anything that happens while it's in their care is on them.

Tire goes flat while in the shop, is that supposed to be on them, because they were test driving it?
They put the top up on your 348 spider, that has been down for who knows how long, and it tears...is it there fault?
You go in for a rattle while driving, then your 9 year over due timing belt fails, is it their fault?
A bolt breaks off in the head while they are removing a part, is that their fault?


Like Steve Magnusson shared, this is a known concern, your shop made you aware of it, why would it be his fault?


Had they stated, a pole jack fell on your car and damaged your tail light, that would be on the shop
A technician damaged your rocker, because the lift arm was in the wrong position, that would be on the shop
The tech was using a half inch impact on your underbody panel fasteners and one broke, that kind of thing would be on the shop.

I can understand why you would question it, but no, its not on the shop to cover the cost to replace.

Please, let us know how it plays out.

S

 

If you value the relationship, go ahead and pay…..

 

I'm surprised that he could even detect it being broken on a test drive -- it's only function is to provide good vacuum to the brake booster at initial start-up and idle (with no throttle blipping done which also creates good vacuum). Most go undetected until the vacuum pump is removed. It is true that every time the vacuum pump is removed and reinstalled, the axis of the vacuum pump might be in a slightly different position due to the tolerances of the various parts -- i.e., have a slightly different offset from the cam rotation axis -- which would change how much it might be flexed during each rotation.

 

yeah, mine's been broken since I bought mine 24,000 miles ago. Never had an issue at all.

 

How much do you value the shop?

With places getting more and more difficult to find that knows these cars enough to service them, sometimes it's better to just pay and stay friends than refuse to pay, fire them and have no where else to go screwing yourself in the end.

I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer here, just something to think about in general. Pick your battles that cost you less in the end. Don't think about today, think months and years down the road.

 

aceept it hard to find good techs now adays also

 

I owned a shop working on Ferraris for twenty years so I look at things from a shop owners perspective. BUT-- I would NEVER rob a part from someone else's
car and install it on another customers car. Maybe the other Testarossa had an original part in it, and it's ready to break too. OR it had a new part that just went into your car, and he's getting a used part with no history as an exchange. BAD Deal. Your part failed, he should have simply bought a replacement part for YOUR car.
This wouldn't even have been an issue if it had been handled differently. How are you going to feel when your "used" part fails in your car, that you just paid to have put back into someone else's car.

 

What sort of shop was this? I ask because if it was a shop that specializes in Ferrari they should have known:
A. Those shafts breaking is a known problem.
B. The fix is not to buy a complete pump (Probably expensive) but to buy a replacement shaft.

This story, if I understand the sequence of events correctly supports my theory that those shafts are broken during reassembly because they can be reluctant to go back in and I have seen hammers used.
I have spent every working day of my life since well before TRs were built working on Ferraris and have never personally seen a broken shaft. And I even own one.

 

I totally agree. At this point if it was me, I would have demanded from the shop owner to remove the part installed on my car from the other car and have him replace my original part with a new one. Of course I would pay for it (but not for swapping the part from the other car. That should have never been done in first place.)

 

Nothing like caring for old hardware. Breakage is inevitable and having a shop you trust is priority 1. Sounds like a good outcome.


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you may have a look here and read all :

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/vacuum-pump-on-tr.386800/

but I only put in a new shaft because the old one was broken. I feel no difference when breaking. so in my eyes no need to replace the pump.only important is to keep the broken part with the toothing in the camshaft, otherwise your oilpressure will go down

 

[QUOTE="Rifledriver, post: 148946727, member: 7497 ... This story, if I understand the sequence of events correctly supports my theory that those shafts are broken during reassembly because they can be reluctant to go back in and I have seen hammers used. I have spent every working day of my life since well before TRs were built working on Ferraris and have never personally seen a broken shaft. And I even own one.[/QUOTE].

Somewhere along the line Brian C also made a comment about why people are still using "syrup" in their engines. (Example Mobll1 15W50 versus 0W40.) Not too long ago, I had the vacuum pump off the engine during the engine out. As I have always been a "syrup" type, I took the pump, still intact and full of 15W50 (and in the warm garage) and spun the shaft by hand to see how much resistance there was to turning it. I was surprised how much effort it took. I drained the pump with the drain hole facing down while rotating the shaft. I slowly re-filled it with 0W40 and by comparison, it was shocking how easily it turned. So 5W40 it is for me from here on out. IMHO, if you combine the thick oil usage with cold climate starts, it may also be contributing to an ugly picture. The question I would ask is does anyone out there know of any TR that ever broke a shaft where it was exclusively operated in a warm climate with lighter weight oil? BTW, I did replace my shaft with one made by Kerry when he first made them, but my original was never broken. EDoug

 

.

Somewhere along the line Brian C also made a comment about why people are still using "syrup" in their engines. (Example Mobll1 15W50 versus 0W40.) Not too long ago, I had the vacuum pump off the engine during the engine out. As I have always been a "syrup" type, I took the pump, still intact and full of 15W50 (and in the warm garage) and spun the shaft by hand to see how much resistance there was to turning it. I was surprised how much effort it took. I drained the pump with the drain hole facing down while rotating the shaft. I slowly re-filled it with 0W40 and by comparison, it was shocking how easily it turned. So 5W40 it is for me from here on out. IMHO, if you combine the thick oil usage with cold climate starts, it may also be contributing to an ugly picture. The question I would ask is does anyone out there know of any TR that ever broke a shaft where it was exclusively operated in a warm climate with lighter weight oil? BTW, I did replace my shaft with one made by Kerry when he first made them, but my original was never broken. EDoug[/QUOTE]






I spent years in 3 California dealers (going back to well before the Testarossa), one the biggest volume dealer and another not far behind. We never had a case of a broken shaft. If not for Fchat I would not be aware of the issue. We also never used 15-20/50 oil.

My feelings are as the cars age it is more of an installation issue.

 

He took a part from another customer's car to put on yours, then sourced a used part for the donor car and wants you to pay for it?

The weird bit is transplanting parts between customers' cars, unless he's buddy buddy with you and the other guy.
That you posted about it suggests that may not be the case.

Hopefully it wasn't the other car that had a broken pump, etc.

 

Spot on. Unless there's more to this, that's a serious red flag.

 

I would personally not trust that mechanic anymore.

 

Every time you take your car in maybe he's using it as a parts car?

 

if the owner of the other car agreed to put his ok pump into the other car because may be to fix his car it will take much more time so I see no problem to do so. but the shop onwner never may do this by his own without letting now both car owners.