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Throttle response

Discussion in '308/328' started by Sigmacars, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    #76 Martin308GTB, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    Hi John,

    the problem with Weber Spain is, that they seem to leave the quality management and checks to the customer. They are indeed able to make decent carbs, but also release their waste. I ordered four auxiliary venturis and two were scrap with casting flaws.
    Same with their complete repro DCOEs. You can be lucky and all works immediately. But it also can get a nightmare, when you get a pair of new carbs with one internally blocked by a tiny flaw.

    I think, you cannot compare, when Weber Spain was OEM for Seat. I think, back then they behaved better than today, since today their carbs are just for toy cars.

    I see, that there is still a lot of myth about carburettors. Especially with multi carb applications. But I am sure, that most of the problems were caused by folks working on them and not knowing what they are doing.

    Best Regards
    Martin
     
  2. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
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    Actually, in my experience, the only thing that required fiddling on Carby 308s is the timing. I installed electronic ignition (no points and no springs) on my 308 GT4 and didn't need to touch my carburettors in 20000km of driving.
     
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  3. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    BTW. If Dr. Tommy wants to 'hear' opinions regarding his Alfa L-Jet. to Weber conversion.... on alfabb.com there are myriads of them. Unfortunately at the end of the day one does not know more than before :)

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    My Alfa is probably "too good" to screw with. It works. In fact I had not started it since last fall, maybe even as far back as September. I didn't plan it that way, it just happened. I popped the trunk Sunday, turned the little battery disconnect screw to on and got in. It started in about 2 seconds and ran perfectly. I drove it for about 40 miles to get it good and hot before turning it back off and parking it.
    I may just buy a beater and put Webers on it. A red one like I have always wanted. Let it be a test mule
     
  5. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Same in France: no modification to any part of a car as when originally given its "certificate of conformity" is tolerated by the Department of Transportation. The biggest problem is that when modifed, it is illegal, meaning that if you are involved in an accident, the insurance may deny you any coverage if their expert discover that the car has been modified. It might even be a problem with something so small as the tyres: a car has been certified with such or such tyre, as agreed and recommended by the manufacturer; if you are involved in an accident today and your car does not have the originally recommended tyres, it is up to you to prove that the tyres you have fitted were the best option available and fully linked to the original tyres...
    Rgds
     
  6. Sigmacars

    Sigmacars Formula Junior
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    Well my 328 is not a 911
     
  7. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
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    Ok, please tell me how Webers needed to be adjusted. I understand SU's needing adjustment but other than adjusting idle speed/idle mixture there isn't anything to adjust once the proper jetting has been set. Or was it the linkage. Sorry this is off topic a bit but I've messed with Webers for decades and they always seemed rock solid.

    Lester
     
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  8. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Synchronization on multi carb applications. And most problems are -like you say- in the linkages. And folks, who touch the wrong screws in the wrong sequence.
    I once -back then, when I still thought, that carbs are black magic- paid €500.00 to a 'specialist', who "adjusted" my carburettors.
    Car ran hardly o.k., and the loose ball on one of the linkages between front and rear pair, which corrupted synchronization, was still present after the job.
    Then I thoroughly read Aircon's friend's thorough instructions ( kind of 'How to... Weber DCNF for Dummies' ) and made it myself. That was in 2008 the last time. And I still see no need to touch my carbs again.

    Best Regards
    Martin
     
  9. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    AMEN!!! Same in Spain,

    John
     
  10. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Aren't there modifications which are certified by the aftermarket manufacturer? We can add suspension modifications, more modern brake lines, exhausts, etc. without any problem as long as they have a type approval passed by our 'TÜV' and 'Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt' ( something like Department of Transportation ).
    Car manufacturer country and so on. You have PSA :)
    If all is so stringent in France, how comes, that cars like this can be street legal?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Best Regards
    Martin
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I live in a free country.
     
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  12. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran

    Mar 26, 2011
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    Either a temporary registration, or the famous, because very difficult to pass: "réception à titre isolé" (= individual certification for only one car, this on a case by case basis); or perhaps it had been registered during times when it was easier, and the registration has not been cancelled yet.
    The principles developped above explain that you do not have "tuners", or "hot rods" etc...in France: they are not road-legal. Unless you are brave and patient enough to try the "réception à titre isolé", but the result is at the discretion of the technician who will inspect the car: if he says "No Way", then it is final.

    Rgds
     
  13. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    288
    Hello Martin,
    Love discussing with you:)... Demands for carbs in Spain is nearly zero now days. In Italy I noticed a lot of old Fiat Pandas, 500, 127...museum cars, not very well maintained yet still running.

    When I had the original Webers on my 131, I didn't have to adjust them constantly, but jet clogging and float needle failure (over flooding the chamber), did happen every now and then. This made the car run very poorly, like on 3 cylinders or not responsive to the throttle.

    Again...I drove the car everyday about 70 Km and around Spain on long trips.

    Just my opinion.

    John.

    BTW, I had a Japanese bike with 4 carbs for about 2 or 3 years...never touched the carbs, not even cleaned them, never failed.
     
  14. nerofer

    nerofer F1 Veteran

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    If you cross the English channel, you'ld see a lot of "strange cars" on the roads that wouldn't be accepted here; for reasons that I am not aware of, the French road certification rules are very stringent. It also explains that we do not have "tuners" or any "car transformation" that you might think of, becaus those vehicles would not be allowed on the roads.

    Rgds
     
  15. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
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    Wish I did too :(

    John.
     
  16. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    This is junk even in Italy. Except the cute old 500, which is meanwhile national treasure. But there's a lively scene with old 101- or 105-Alfas, or even older, well restored and those still need Weber carbs. Visit the classic car fair in Padova each year in fall and you will be convinced.
    No demand in Spain doesn't justify the fact, that they supply junk to the rest of the world, where classic car guys 'n' girls are in need.
    Maybe it's the history of Spain and cars. It's a pity, that Pegaso didn't succeed.

    Best Regards
    Martin
     
  17. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
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    Good, that you mention it. I will quote you, when I want to smoke next time in public areas in NY :)

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
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  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    NY is not a country just so you know. It is a city in a great big country run by an idiot elected by people too stupid to run their own lives. Yet they still exercise more individual determination than most of Europe.
     
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  19. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Seriously? *yawn*
     
  20. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
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    Wrong destination. Come visit Florida. We don't care if you smoke, or if your Ferrari has no cats. ;)
     
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  21. kiwiokie

    kiwiokie Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2013
    667
    Tulsa, OK
    Really??? Very profound conclusion. My observation is that many 911 owners also complain about CIS but in the vast majority of cases it is not operating as originally designed as components have aged and been monkeyed with over the years.
     
  22. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    288
    Morning,
    Thought about that at a time, but the kit was $6000 and import taxes in Spain are about 40 to 50% increase... decided not to go down that road.

    John.
     
  23. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    288
    Morning Martin,
    Don't be mean using the word "junk", I owned a Seat Panda for several years (1989 to 2015). Apart from normal maintenance, nothing broke down, not even the water pump. Salvaged the car with over 200.000Km.

    Do you consider this "junk"?

    Now supplying new parts for old cars from a dealer, I can't respond. I always search for new parts from private owners. This works pretty well, a lot of people have old parts they want to get rid of at a very reasonable price.

    John
     
  24. Hinecker

    Hinecker Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2011
    288
    Morning Brian,
    Just a thought, does a free country exist? I grew up in the US before coming to Europe, as a matter of fact I'm a US citizen.
    All I've ever learned about freedom is that your freedom is a big as your wallet...That seems to work everywhere.

    Just my opinion,

    John.
     
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  25. Aircon

    Aircon Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
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    Yes...it's not cheap. I think I spent $10k all up. I just love that sort of thing. I previously did it to a BB512 and a 355CH too. (MoTec, that is)

    But how it's done is VERY important to me. it needs to look stock and sound stock AND reversible. That adds to the cost, but it's worth it for me.
     

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