time has come to say goodbye- to Manzoni

Other things the hypercar market will not react well to:

Automatic transmissions
GPF
Additional weight of safety components
Sound level legislation
Turbocharging
Digital gauge clusters

The list goes on …

Sales have never been better
Prices escalating well beyond inflation
People lining up to buy them

I think you should check your facts before spewing such broad, baseless and completely incorrect statements.

I honestly can’t recall a single thing you’ve been right about

Hard to believe Ferrari is able to sell every single one of these “ugly” cars they wish to make … unless of course you were to actually do some research before crying doom.


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You mean a Ferrari "without" an engine, because an electric battery is not an engine !
Well, I'm going to hypothesize; those who buy a badge and a social marker will continue to buy, as long as they feel valued inside ... because the day they hear endlessly that it is no longer a Ferrari and that it is crap, they will not buy more.
Enthusiasts and lovers of sports cars and mechanics, of course, will not buy.

 

It's very clear that Manzoni isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The Roma was a great effort, showing their talent, and they will probably correct the 296's design flaws at the mid-cycle refresh in 3 or 4 years. Maybe the thing to do is just wait until then, that car will probably be gorgeous.

 

Electric cars do have engines - the batteries are the equivalent of the fuel tanks. Of course the electric engine is far simpler and technically far less exciting than an ICE , but it's there.

 

Am I the only one here that thinks the 296 already does look gorgeous as it is?

 

No you are not the only one.
I think it looks fabulous. The Hybrid part however, has me on the fence.
But I do like the design, no question.

 

I am a mechanical NA aficionado, and my heart aches at the mere thought of all EV Ferrari’s. However, they will continue to sell every car they make I have no doubt.
Your posts, and I have read many of them, places you quite possibly at just about the very bottom of FChat’s credibility ranking.
I don’t know why you bother posting tbh.

 

Sorry i was partying in Mykonos, couldn't see ur long message, by the way how old are you Sir? at ur 60s maybe less may be more, anyway age is just a number but I ask because I was amazed by the great use of vocabulary in this amazing long message!!

 

Not sure what age has to do with anything. Point is simply that you made your point and as it is an opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. But what I’ve found over the many, many years of my life is that people who feel the need to continually offer the same opinion over and over (though certainly nobody asked) are simply lacking something in their lives.

Enjoy Mykonos, I hear it is beautiful. And let’s check back in a few years to see whether or not the 296 (and all the other ugly Ferraris you despise) is as big a failure as you predict.


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I liked your phrase *and they will probably correct the 296's design flaws at the mid-cycle refresh in 3 or 4 years.*

And why wait, I have never seen a man enjoy ruining the DNA of a brand the way this man does. LOOK what he has done with the 296 tail light (the Ray-Ban tail lights, because the tail light look like Sunglasses ), time to say bye bye to him. And that should be immediately!

 

Man, it's just an opinion about a CAR, u probably over reacting !!!! Or may be u r working for Ferrari's Manzoni!!!

 

Any time I see his name appear over a post, I keep scrolling…scroll past…same content as before…zero substance. And it’s not just in this thread.

 

THE AUTOEXTREMIST - RANTS
DESIGN MATTERS, PART III.
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By Peter M. DeLorenzo

Detroit. In this conclusion of my series on Automotive Design (read Design Matters, Part I and Part II – WG), it’s clear that I place a high value on the efficacy and execution of design. It’s also no secret that I believe that design will maintain its position as the Ultimate Initial Product Differentiator going forward, in fact, even more so than ever before.

This series has generated a lot of comments from within the industry, especially – and understandably so – from the design community. I would say that the vast majority of the comments we received were positive, and that’s gratifying, because I have the utmost respect for the creative talents who work in the design houses all over the world.

As I’ve said many times before, the artisans who toil in design studios are the most influential people in the automobile business. They set the tone for brands and lead the word-of-mouth, “street look” discussions, and their visionary work can make – or break – a car company’s fortunes. It’s grueling work, too, because designers live in a particularly strange Twilight Zone where they have to dwell in the past and present, while working on a future that’s coming well down the road. That means lead designers have to present “new” designs to the media and public that have been basically “baked” three-to-five years before. Then they go back to their respective studios to put the finishing touches on designs that will appear five years into the future.

This work requires, vision, discipline and a savagely creative mindset that is instantly graded the moment the wraps are taken off of their latest designs. It is a tough, tough profession, but when you talk to designers, most wouldn’t trade it for anything. Seeing something in concept or production form that they had a key role in creating presents a level of exhilaration that’s extremely hard to beat.

That intro was kind of a labyrinthian way of getting to my final discussion topic, which is a question that I get asked all the time: “Given everything you know (and have discussed especially these past few weeks), who’s doing design well right now?”

That’s the billion-dollar question, isn’t it? Design matters more than at any other time in automotive history. In this 24/7, nanosecond-attention-span world we live in today, the hot “street look” of the moment captures all the attention and interest, and usually results in red-hot sales figures too.

Exotic cars lead the discussion, but just because a car is expensive doesn’t mean its design is automatically compelling. Unless, of course we’re talking about Ferrari. The newest Ferrari – the 296 GTB – is compact, lightweight and has a taut skin that stretches over its fenders and haunches to create a damn-near perfect form. It is simply extraordinary from every angle and it is the definitive supercar of the moment.

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The 2022 Ferrari 296 GTB.

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But you’re probably saying, that’s Ferrari, we expect a Ferrari to have jaw-dropping street presence and compelling design. Fair point, but I can also mention several exotics that have little to no appeal at all. We’ll skip that for now, however.

When I consider contemporary design, I am going to leave pickups, SUVs and crossovers out of the discussion. I am just not interested, and even though they are the overwhelming choice in the mainstream market, they bring nothing to the design table. At all. (The exception being the Cadillac Lyriq, which is due next spring.)

That word “mainstream” is key. It’s one thing to do provocative concepts that shine under the auto show lights, but it’s quite another to bring those high-concept executions to the street. Bill Mitchell, the exceptional design legend who inherited the mantle from Harley Earl and propelled GM to incredible heights during the company’s heyday (1957-1977), specialized in bringing concept car looks to the streets and byways of mainstream America. It was a 20-year period unrivaled in automotive history, in fact. No one did it better, and no one influenced contemporary automotive design quite like Bill Mitchell did. The 1959 Corvette Sting Ray racer; 1963 Corvette Sting Ray; the Mako Shark concepts; the 1963 Buick Riviera (although I prefer the ’65), the Oldsmobile Toronado; the Cadillac Eldorado; the Chevrolet Camaro; the Pontiac Firebird, Grand Prix and GTO; and the list goes on and on.

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Bill Mitchell and the 1959 Corvette Sting Ray racer.

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The 1963 Corvette Sting Ray.

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The 1963 Buick Riviera.

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The 1961 Corvette Mako Shark I and 1965 Corvette Mako Shark II.

And when I think of Mitchell and his thoughts on design, and his absolute belief in bringing the “good stuff” to mainstream America, I believe there is one contemporary car that would meet with his approval, and that is the Lexus LC 500 (images below). Yes, it is pricey (at around $100,000), but when this machine appeared as a concept several years ago and then appeared in showrooms pretty much untouched and intact, it resonated with people and still does to this day. Why? It is fluid and expressive, its surface detailing is impressive and its overall form is flat-out gorgeous. I would argue that no mainstream contemporary car manufacturer stuck to its guns like Lexus did with the LC 500. They could have pulled up short and faked it in spots, but they didn’t. Instead, they executed it perfectly and the result is especially pleasing to the eye while projecting a street presence that is unmistakable. Mitchell would have been pleased.

That does it for my design discussions, at least for now, but I can’t leave you without mentioning the annual events taking place out in Monterey, California, this week. “Monterey Car Week” stopped being about the purity of automotive enthusiasm a long time ago, and all perspective has been most assuredly lost. Now, it is a Greed Fest extraordinaire, with a level of hucksterism and debilitating, fleecing auctions that far exceed anything even remotely resembling “normal.” When WG pointed out to me that tickets for The Quail had risen to $995.00 each, with a six-month advance purchase awarded through a lottery, I knew that the whole thing had become a pathetic exercise that we’re very happy to miss.

And that’s the High-Octane Truth for this week.

 

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https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/magazine/articles/designing-the-296-gtb-with-flavio-manzoni

 

I totally agree with you, thank you for writing this!

At times I think I might be just a bit biased because I could not afford a brand new Ferrari (I mean, technically I could, but it would become my only possession!) or becuase I'd quite like to be in charge of their design, but I think I am 100% honest when I say that I do not quite like or would like to own any model produced after the 360 Modena and that I would never swap my 208 GTB for any Ferrari of the last 30 years.
I like a bit just the Roma, with the exception of few details - rear lights included.
I think that Flavio Manzoni is a very nice person, but I have the feeling Ferrari quit Pininfarina without having grown similar or superior competences.
Ferrari is a universal brand that can put a pranching horse on anything and sell it for a fortune, but still Ferrari is not all-powerful and exterior car design is a delicate matter. So I agree with your basic statement, that some strong change is needed, but at this point I am not sure of what the solution should be and if their own design centre will ever be able to design iconic models like another 308, or the Testarossa, the 288, the F40 or the 250s, 275s and so on.
Probably what we need is another Leonardo Fioravanti, inside or outside the company!!!
Bye bye!
Nic

 

However, do you know that the cars following the 360 Modena - F430, F12, 458 - were still designed by Pininfarina?

 

Yes, I perfectly know, and the 458 was the last Pininfarina berlinetta!


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What's holding up Manzoni-touched products are the base PF designs in the first cars and that rectangular yellow and black badge on the front bumper in the more resent cars. Face it, if the 'way too much is too little' Manzoni team designs did not have that badge they would be a whole lot less desirable. The 812sf is an abomination and every professional reviewer commented on the power 'regardless of what they thought of the design'. Its actually hideous even though you can see the PF F12 underneath.

The GTS version is just lazy. He could have done something really special with the first mid-front convertible since the ten million dollar plus F60 and the 599Aperta and just did the bare minimum. The cars that look good (Pista) are really just enhanced versions of the PF and other designers base.

What we are missing is how much further along Ferrari would be by now without these early learning phases of the current team. Evidence is why a new design team needs an Icona series. Would love to be in the meeting where the design team was told to start seriously copying prior designs and even naming them the same.

 

For the record, originally, the Monza was to be a one off.
Marchionne liked the exercise in style and wanted to make a series of it. This is how the Icona range was born. Afterwards, marketing took over.

 

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

But, you see, design is extremely subjective.
I think the 812SF is beautiful. It’s street presence is amazing.
I think the GTS is beautiful. Love the buttresses.
I think the Pista, especially front, is downright butt ugly. I mean fugly.

See how that works?

 

I did not like the 296 when I saw the photos but could not pinpoint why. Today I saw a Lotus on the street which immediately reminded me of the 296! It is shockingly similar design language. And I detest Lotus, which is why I naturally didn’t like the 296 and have now figured out why.


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Sure. But the 812sf was soundly unappealing in its design by the wide reviewer community and rightly so. The GTS has nothing going on with those buttresses. They are there as expected but the decklid is featureless and boring. They removed the hideous vents on the rear fenders and it started looking like the F12B again which shows how bad they look on the SF. They had to redo the rear flap from the SF because it was ugly and always tilted. The Pista is nice as a whole but some of the features are not nice at all. Being very honest, I would let Mr. Manzoni go. He is a lightweight in a heavyweight arena. Of course, IMO.

 

Ok upto the b pillar, the whole back end is a mess.

 

I totally agree with you.

the last Ferrari I fell in love with was the Monza.
In all the others, even I, I always had the feeling that they were a mixture of styles unrelated to each other.
Then, in my opinion, in some models (SF 90, 296 GTB), there are some details completely out of place:

• The front and rear lights
• The rear view mirrors.

just to name a few. Recently it has been announced a radical change in the style of the next cars. I trust in a positive change.
But if not, better to say goodbye.