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Time to add an F12?

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by haithman, Nov 24, 2021 at 4:35 PM.

  1. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    Hey everyone,

    Long, long, long time lurker here - was just reading my profile that said I was a HS student meaning I created this account a minimum of 16-17 years ago....

    Anyway, from that point in my life when I was dreaming I have reached a point where I can potentially turn that dream into reality and I have seriously been considering adding an F12 to the garage.

    I currently own a 991 GT3 and long lusted over the 458 but with prices where they are on those I feel I can make the immediate jump to a V12 with the F12 for similar money. I'm not overly fussy except that Nero exterior is a must. The Porsche is a bright paint to sample Mexico blue so I think an F car in a more muted color would be complimentary.

    It seems F12 prices have ticked up a bit, although not as much as 458 prices, and a clean example with decent miles will demand $255-$270k. Is now a good time to buy in your eyes? I expect some form of depreciation but if it means taking 30% in a year before values bottom maybe I should rethink the time or model. Also if anyone has experience with the GT3 and F12 I would love to hear about your thoughts on both. I have driven a 458 but never a V12 Ferrari!
     
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  3. JTSE30

    JTSE30 Formula 3

    Oct 1, 2004
    1,905
    Austin TX
    Compared to the 911 GT3 or 458, the F12 is a big car, big interior, big storage, big everything.

    I think F12 prices were already, pre-c19, were coming back up, the biggest difference is the number of cars for sale (USA), that seems to be dropping..

    And, of course, as time goes by, fewer excellent condition cars will be available.

    Of any time of year, winter time, is typically thought of as the best time since many are not driven for various reasons during the winter. Of course we are just now entering winter (northern hemisphere) so maybe another month or two might find a better deal.

    With that said, if you find a car that meets your expectations, passes an independent inspection, I think you should go for it, otherwise, just wait until one does appear and then be ready to move/act on it.
     
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  4. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2014
    2,868
    I own a 458 and F12. I highly, highly recommend that you drive the F12 before buying it. It is very, very different then that 458. Frankly, after reading your intro I think you should buy the 458. Its much more exotic drive and the gears are shorter so you can open it up a lot easier. Prices seem to be crazy right now but who knows what will happen. I bought my 2014 red/tan F12 with 5500 miles on it in March for $205k which seemed like a lot at the time but now seems a lot less. Even if the 458 is a bit more probably ok bet in the long run as my guess prices stay up for at least a couple years.
     
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  5. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    Definitely will drive both again to make sure. The GT3 is already pretty high strung so not sure I want two cars that are similar in that regard.
     
  6. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2014
    2,868
    That's what I thought and I added an F12 with never driving it. I don't regret its just much more of a tame car and you really have to be laying into it to make it come alive. I've tracked it and that's been a blast and also went on extended hammer down road trips through the Nevada desert and it shines like no other. But outside of that, around town and whatnot, its, I hate to say it, rather subdued. Not that that is bad and it will compliment the GT3 brilliantly. I would just not make the mistake I did not go into it with open eyes because I found it to be very different from how it is often described. Keep us posted on what you decide to do!
     
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  8. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    Thanks I appreciate that feedback from someone who has owned both!
     
  9. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,149
    Santa Barbara County
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    Sam
  10. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2020
    536
    In the rain
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    Stew
    Drive an F12 and decide. I originally went to my ferrari dealer thinking 458 or a Roma. Decided on an 812 (lol, they know how to extract maximum dollars). The V12 cars are something special, but the 458 certainly earns its nickname 4-5-great
     
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  11. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,820
    France
    The V12 is a proper engine - something you won't find in a 458 ;)
     
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  13. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    Good price but I’m a little wary of not buying a car from a Ferrari dealership. Also the interior is very red


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  14. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    So what about the v12 shifted your thinking?

    I do really need to drive the car to decide. I previously also had an F90 M5 in the garage and while extremely fast I found it to be one of the most boring and characterless cars I’ve ever had. I’m sure the F12 is nothing like that though.
     
  15. Ngcanada

    Ngcanada Formula Junior

    May 16, 2016
    310
    Ottawa Canada
    Don't worry, I think the V12 Ferrari will blow your expectations. You already have a little race car type in the garage and you are keeping it. So this F12 would be a perfect compliment. The powerplant is like nothing else, the sounds it emits will thrill you when you want, then as stated above, you can also take this car on a long long trip and not feel beat up. Best of both worlds the f12.
     
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  16. vonbeeler

    vonbeeler Formula Junior

    Jul 28, 2012
    271
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I think the ultimate combo is to have one rear engine and one GT front V12. The V12 is at another level.
    I have an 812 and just sold my 488 with F8 on order. For the V12 I honestly feel like I’m driving around with an old school F1 motor under the hood.
    The endless pull is insane and the soundtrack cannot be beat. Even at idle the car vibrates.
    It’s truly special and the wife prefers it’s comfort and it’s what we take for a trip.
    The rear/mid engine cars GT3/458 are true sports cars. Something I enjoy more for myself for the go cart feel with feet on the front axle experience that also cannot be beat.
    It’s special also.
    Two different things.
    I enjoy both but likely you should drive and see for yourself.


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  17. vonbeeler

    vonbeeler Formula Junior

    Jul 28, 2012
    271
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Also regarding your M5 I also have an Alpina B7.
    It has its use as fun family hauler.
    It is totally boring compared to the 812 however. You are correct the F12 won’t even be remotely similar to the M5. Completely different experience. Ferrari is epic!
    BMW is a tool.


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  18. Raj seth

    Raj seth Karting

    Sep 24, 2020
    122
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Raj seth
    F12 is a beast. But yes, you need to snap it out of auto and get on it. I bought mine last year. I daily drive it around boston. Have 2k miles behind the wheel. Now 15.5k. Putting it away today. Great summer. One obvious difference from GT3 - this easily swallows golf clubs. You can use it as a car! Tame if you want which is great around town. Looks kill.

    Not entirely intuitive unless you are a racer type, the light steering and ferocious engine take some getting used to. Scarier than 458. Need real confidence and warm tires and this thing is insane. Crazy sound - special to drive in a way that’s hard to describe.

    Compared to my California T which was a bit of a handling pig, the f12 corners so much flatter ( still a gt) is dramatically faster … from 4k-9k revs… blows my old 911turbo away. And the sound… feels like yep an f1 car. Feels it in some gears

    You might enjoy the recent review of the 812 where the reviewer explains his “GT3 rule”. Basically asserted that every $$ past a GT3 a waste - Till he drove the 812. Agreed the 812 is better than the F12 but at the core they are quite similar in feel. For me not worth $100k+ delta in price but tmw I might feel differently

    I’ve loved mine but I’ll likely sell it next spring to try another. I Wonder the market too.

    My car compares to silver one at Ferrari San Fran which also has slightly higher miles, lower sticker..

    Mine was Celebrity owned( I’m 2nd owner); special blue America paint; $435k sticker, lift ( req) stereo, Daytona seats (tan). Car has a ferrari power warranty. I bought it certified last year from a dealer. Just serviced , Recent $10k service work to make it perfect including a couple new leather bits. Oil, fluids, filters, replaced water pump under warranty.

    Car is ready to go but I missed my window this year. Stay tuned next spring. Not black but IMHO better - looks black in many angles/ more unique. That said everyone different. I looked forever for this spec.

    Get an f12….you are buying the engine - it’s unreal. Do a PPI. I bought mine certified and have still had to clean up a couple things and argue with dealer etc. Careful re cars been sitting too long.

    I recall wondering why Chris Harris would suggest he’d walk past a pista to an F12? I get it now. Different car.

    Life is short…maybe get both:)

    Enjoy regardless



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  19. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 10, 2020
    536
    In the rain
    Full Name:
    Stew
    Doing a couple pulls through tunnels on a test drive of an 812 was a great starting point lol. The sound is unmatchable, it’s one of the greatest engine notes of all time (from a road car at least).

    Other than that, it is significantly faster, more modern, more comfortable, more subtle, and drives like a dream. I like to do longer GT type drives, so the V12 suits that very well. I’ve been in the car for 10 hour driving days and I’ve felt totally fine after the fact. Note, I’m still in my 20s, but most here talk about how comfortable it is with the full electric seats.

    Last, but certainly not least, in my particular case I got to spec my car and order it. Having a Ferrari made for you specifically is a certain special privilege that I couldn’t pass up. I loved the 458, but ordering my first super car also helped turn the tides. Would I buy a 458 right now? Yes, I think it would be a great addition to my 812, but I’ve got an F8 spider on the way that will fill that role.

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  20. 430jm

    430jm Karting

    Jun 11, 2017
    124
    Atlanta

    I currently have a 458S and an 812. They are both incredible cars. That said, I really loved my F 12 and would never have sold it but for a great deal on an 812 with great specs. The F 12 has great noise, great speed, and is gorgeous.

    I just can’t understand the price delta v F8 etc. Buy it.
     
  21. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    9,998
    Very exciting! First please dont drive any of these cars in auto mode. Its not designed for fun driving. Ferraris need to be driven with a bit of verve and gusto to be appreciated. Second, both are truly excellent choices. 458 will be more exotic as said. F12 think of more like a super mega M3- if you’ve ever driven one. Both are sensitive to tire choice, but especially F12. Put it on the latest Michelins that will fit and you should not have any serious traction issues. On older tires, it can be more interesting.. Its hard to tell someone else what they will like. I think you will be financially fairly safe in either car. I dont see either losing 30% any time soon, but no one knows the future. Just imagine what we were all thinking back in Feb 2020. Either is a fabulous choice.


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  22. haithman

    haithman Rookie

    Aug 12, 2004
    27
    Thanks everyone for the super helpful advice - this is exactly why I joined these boards all those years ago.

    I guess the next step is to find the spec I like at a price that is suitable - no easy task with inventory levels where they are today.

    Super excited and I think the F12 would pair very well with the GT3 and my wife’s G63!
     
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  23. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,149
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    You would want to do PPI and carfax on car. Check Google reviews of dealership.

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  24. Way2fast

    Way2fast Formula 3

    May 24, 2006
    2,149
    Santa Barbara County
    Full Name:
    Sam
    I put 165k miles on my 06 M5. That V10 motor was a beast. When I sold it in 2019 I bought an FF as my daily. Just a four seater F12. Same motor and sound but perfect for Costco runs and long drives. It had 28k miles when I bought it and has 50k now. I did a drive in LA last Saturday with 8 F12 TDFs. It look the same when we open our hoods, but mine was $900k less

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  25. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 9, 2008
    6,811
    SoCal
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    Edward
    Ouch Sam!
    Same motor… different mechanical tappets…jab jab
    I had an E60 M5 as well, that NA V10 with Eisenmann exhaust was a beast!


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  26. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 9, 2008
    6,811
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    Since you have the GT3 as a canyon carver, get the F12. NA 12 sonorous trumpets is glorious. Enzo in heaven would be proud.


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  27. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
    283
    It very much depends on what’s important to you. It’s also very tough to tell accurately without putting a good bit of miles on one. If the potential financial downside isn’t an issue, I’d say buy one and find out. :D I wouldn’t be surprised if it will be down 30% in a year though (given the “inflated” prices at the moment)

    For the cars you referenced, I have had a 458 Italia (bought used and drove it for ~7000 miles), F12 (bought new and drove it for ~7500 miles), 991.2 GT3T (bought new and drove it for ~8000 miles). All street miles and mainly for fun. I would be happy to have kept any/all of these (didn’t keep partly due to space constraints and partly due to enjoying different set of cars at the moment).

    458 is one of the last naturally aspirated V8 Ferrari and it will always be special. High drama, amazing screaming V8, hyper sensitive throttle (in the more aggressive modes), great forward visibility, louder, lighter.

    F12 has a V12. There’s something special about the V12 cars (it depends on what one associates with it, of course). Growing up with F1 cars running V12s, the F12 brings enjoyable emotions for me. Long hood so it’s a bit trickier. Not a very loud car in comparison but I love the sound quality. Powerful, useable, just scary enough.

    If your GT3 is a PDK, it’s an even more precise of an instrument. The short exhaust, flat 6 howl in awesome. Ferrari does drama and flair the best.
     
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  28. Da Butcher

    Da Butcher Karting

    Jan 9, 2018
    162
    Full Name:
    Jose Marie Alandy

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