Time To Buy | FerrariChat

Time To Buy

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by lencap, Dec 26, 2008.

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  1. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    299
    Raleigh, NC
    Went to look at current non-Ferrari cars, just to see what's out there. 2008 Porsche cars are being offered at 12% off list, mostly Caymans and Boxsters, with 911s holding up a bit better. 2 year old BMWs are selling for less than half of new prices at dealer auctions. New Corvettes are 10% or more off list, and that's for 2009 models.

    Where it stops, no one knows, but at some point prices stop going down. Right now I'm finding 550s offered at $90K and lower from independent car dealers, with franchised dealers asking $20K more. Private sellers are all over the place on price, with Euro cars under $80K.

    Point is for $90K or so I can buy a well sorted out 1998-2000 550, about $30-35K more than a Porsche Cayman S. For $35K more than a new Corvette I can buy the same car. And for just about twice the price of a BMW 750i I can still own a 550. At $90K the 550 is selling for $30K more than top line 328s - seems like $30K buys quite a bit more car. Collector value aside, do you really expect that over the long run a $30K premium versus a 328 is high? I don't. Driving a car with tons of torque is a lot of fun, and as I get older the 550 is a car I will grow into, instead of a 328/355/360 that I will grow out of.

    People speak of the "large number" of 550s - is 3600 cars a lot? That's half of the Testarossa production run. And the 550 costs far less to maintain, and, in my opinion, will look less dated 20 years from now than the interior of the Testarossa does now.

    Yes, the Ferrari market can get weaker, but at these prices the relative value of the Ferrari seems very attractive. So if I buy a 550 today for $90K from an independent dealer, and spend another $10K in upkeep over the next 2-3 years, and the car falls to $60K (I doubt it will get there in the next five years, but who knows), my total cost of the 550 over three years may be $40K, in a very bad market erosion. What will a 2008 Cayman be worth in three years - $25K?, add another $2-3K for upkeep and the Cayman costs $12K less than a Ferrari over three years. Is there any doubt which is the better car?

    I'm looking for a car now, yes, it may fall further, but even if it does, what will I save $20K? Life's too short to worry about getting the cheapest price on a car. I'll get $20K of fun over the next three years. And if something happens to me and I have to sell, the $20-40K it may cost won't ruin my life. With a production run of 3600 cars, even if half of them are resold in the next three years, that's only 1800 cars - 600 a year. For these cars to drop 25% from here will take a lot of those sellers running for the door at the same time - it could happen, but I wouldn't bet on it. If you had to sell you car for stock market margin, you've all ready done it. Same with real estate. What other major asset class is left to collapse?

    I can't find a better value than modern 12 cylinder Ferrari cars - 550/575 - take your pick. If I had the dollars, I'd buy a 2007 12 cylinder Ferrari with a warranty, loving life for getting it at a song compared to original list and prices just a year ago.

    There are investments and there is driving enjoyment - don't confuse the two. Only the original Enzo cars are collector cars - the rest will depreciate over time, with a few exceptions. Buy them, drive them and enjoy them. If I buy the 550 and it falls to $30K because I've put 70K miles on it, those miles cost me less than $1 each. Double it for upkeep and related costs. Not a bad way to lose money - it's a lot more fun than watching my stocks collapse.
     
  2. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    There have been a few threads about this and most of the insiders think the poor outlook will at least remain poor and some think it will get worse {I do as well}. Do a quick search and you'll find what cars people should buy now for a good deal and what cars will be good deals later. I think a thread like that is still active.
     
  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,683
    Vegas baby
    There is a mystique about owning a Ferrari -- any Ferrari --over practically anything else. People 20 years from now will be saying the same thing.

    20 years from now you'll be telling people about the time you owned one. Would you be saying that about a Porsche Cayman? A Corvette? Unlikely.

    It will be the same issue with resale value, provided that operating costs (fuel, maintenance, insurance) don't kill exotics in the future. While your mass produced Cayman is being recycled for scrap, someone at the same time will always be looking for a great classic Ferrari in any condition.

    So, if you can afford one, then just do it and don't look back.

    But, buy what's right FOR YOU. If you're going to spend that much on a car, get what YOU want and don't sweat the small stuff. Get the model you want, color you want, the options you want, the condition you want, etc and pay a little more if it means doing so. Shop around and don't worry about the lowest price. Do your reseach first and shopping second.

    What's most important is that you spent your money on something you really wanted rather than whatever the lowest point in the market held at the time.
     
  4. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
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    Neil
    Good points. I would rather have a car of my dreams which is the right colour with the right options, even if it's slightly less desirable to others and the resale value lower.
     
  5. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,581
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    William Maxwell Hart
    I would look at the prices you quoted as the price of 'entry' not the price of ownership.
    These cars are not cheap to maintain. They have needs. And you are talking about an 8-10 year old car, which will have more needs, even if treated well so far. PPI and full history would be critical in any case. And, when bargain shopping, all the more so.
    They are great cars. Owned 2 of 'em. But don't buy one thinking that it is a small leap pricewise from buying a new Porsche. And, certainly don't buy thinking you'll have a collector's item.
     
  6. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
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    Neil
    Out of the modern day Ferraris I like the 550 for a different reason I like it for nearly the same reason I like the 612 but I can't put my finger on it. I still wouldn't buy a 550 yet I would wait until after the summer and somewhat deep into the fall of 09. But if it makes you happy and you know you may not be getting the best deal this poor economy will offer, then so be it. You've been more logical about this than almost anyone before you. Your mind seems clear about everything. If I were you, I would start looking hard right away.
     
  7. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
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    HUBBSTER
    wait till July-Oct, prices will be much lower than today

    Thats when I'll make my move
     
  8. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,607
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Great point. I people overanalyse the market and forget what Ferrari ownership is about. If The Right Car comes along, and the price isn't stupidly out of line, it's time to buy.

    If you like 550s, the painful depreciation is done.

    Absolutely. Cars don't depreciate simply because we flip a page on the calendar. Parts age and wear out. If you look over the pile of receipts for my 328, which is much simpler car than a 550, you'll get an idea of how much of it has been replaced over the last 22 years. The total spent on service probably adds up to most of the original MSRP.
     
  9. SS2012

    SS2012 Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2006
    696
    Financial market decline accelerates the lose of value on older vehicles including Ferraris. There will come a point when these modern exotic cars have repair/maintenance cost that's too high to make sense for even the enthusiasts. What happens then? Will used Ferraris travel down the same ally as used Jaguars? I hope not, but only time will tell.
     
  10. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
    Sarasota, Fl.
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    Stan
    The 355, 360, 430, 456, 612, 550, 575, 599 and Cali. will all be cheaper then. You can save a lot of money. Think about it.








    Happy shopping and enjoy the ride.
     
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,683
    Vegas baby
    Wait 5 years? For what? I say, what a waste of LIFE.

    Back in September, I went to the hospital with some minor chest pain. My doctor says I need a complete bypass or I won't live a week. Three months later, I'm better than I have been in 10 years. But, I have a different time table now on things I want or things I want to do.

    The future cannot be predicted. Live for today. You never know what tomorrow will bring.
     
  12. Jackmb1

    Jackmb1 F1 Rookie

    Dec 27, 2005
    3,329
    I have to agree with your comment that "if you can afford one, then just do it and don't look back". If you find what you're looking for then buy it. If you wait for the prices to go down then you may not find what you're looking for.
     
  13. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
    Sarasota, Fl.
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    Stan




    Tongue in cheek. I was out enjoying my cars the last couple days.
     
  14. tourman

    tourman Rookie

    Jun 9, 2005
    1
    AMEN!!!! There is entirely too much space on when do I buy-how much will I loose-should I wait till next year, next summer? Yes we should always be concerned and not do something stupid when buying-have we forgotten the reason we buy a Ferrari? Is it not for the drive-the sound-the smell-the comradery! There is WAY WAY too much chatter on the future-no one, no one knows where the market (car or financial) is going.Sure prices are impacted by the market-DUH! As stated if you can afford it today-go for it- the man says "drive it like you stole it" and smile while your doing it!!!
     
  15. open roads

    open roads F1 Rookie

    Jan 28, 2007
    3,799
    Sarasota, Fl.
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    Stan
    You are right. We are in a good time to buy. There has been a big adjustment and I don't think it is a bad time.

    Now, please excuse me while I go out and enjoy another drive.


    Like I said. Happy shopping !!
     
  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2008
    41,692
    Sarasota
    Full Name:
    David
    Seems like there is always a lot of good reasons not to buy, if that's your mind-set, and always one very good reason to buy. ;)
     
  17. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ

    Jun 5, 2001
    19,800
    Full Name:
    Art
    How many people were waiting for car prices to drop, or to be able to buy a new car as MSRP? A lot said they were but apparently few stepped up to the plate when it became available. Looks like a lot of people were poseurs, wanted the car, but didn't want to make a commitment.

    Art
     
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,872
    FL
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    Sean
    If you want a 550 dont spend time justifying it just get the car. It is a whole different ballgame from a cayman. Running costs are going to be huge, figure spending 10-20k unexpectedly in the first two years. EVO magazine ran a slightly used 550 for a year, the numbers were eye watering. It would not stop me if I wanted one, but then I am a car addict. If you are more practicaly minded there are better choices. Personaly for not much more you can get a zr1.
     
  19. 97spiderman

    97spiderman Karting

    Dec 15, 2008
    107
    Sunny Buffalo, NY
    Full Name:
    JohnAG
    Hats off to Mr. bdelp, I for one am with you 100%. I have been researching my first Ferrari purchase, F355 6 speed manual, spider perhaps (need more input with regards to chassis flex), tour de France blue, ... Why do tommorow what you can to today.
     
  20. PINNIN512

    PINNIN512 Formula 3

    Aug 30, 2002
    1,014
    California
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    David
    Agree. You only live once and Ferrari ownership is awsome if you can affford to at least do it once before you die.
     
  21. UpNorth

    UpNorth Formula 3
    Owner

    Sep 30, 2006
    1,769
    Quebec, Canada
    Full Name:
    Francois
    ...and go buy a Ferrari. It's good for you, your brain, your cardio vascular system (all that washing and polishing) and the economy!
    And please drive it!
     

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