Timing belt change

Hello,

My F360 os 60'000km, timing belt was not changed since 3 years. One garage gave a price for the timing belt only, another one says I must also change tensionners, bearings, etc...what should I do?

 

Do what 'another one' says. At the very least the tensioner brgs.

 

Not nearly enough information to advise. There are good justifications for all of those items but you have not told us what those are.
You should really ask them. They are the only ones to be in a position to make that judgment.

 

As above find a mechanic you trust and go by their recommendations. Not some anonymous person on the internet. (Other owners recommendations in Switzerland could be solicited).

For example: I drive a 1986 toyota corolla that my parents bought me. I don't even know what a Modena is! Nor have I even seen one in person. But I have very strong feelings that the timing belt should be replaced every 6 months. And I post it on Ferrarichat with authority.

Personally I replace my belts and bearings every 3-5 years. If the tensioners need it.. then they get replaced as well. My mechanic is on board with this.

 

Experience says that as the cars age more than just the belts will need to be replaced. It could be that the "second" person you mentioned is just making more certain that you're aware of the likely extras that might be needed.

I think one of the above posts makes a good point, which I'll restate, there is no single right answer...you need to have a trusted mechanic go in and while putting in the new belt examine and replace anything else that's degraded.

Due to the high cost of motor replacement should something in the timing line fail, I would default to being a bit more proactive, but that's just me...

 

The belts on my 360 were changed in 2011 and again just last month. The belt change was done at a dealership both times. On both receipts I did not see any bearings listed. Do they just feel the bearings and make a decision on whether to replace them?

 

I would have a word with the service technician who did the job and ask the rationale. (If it were me it probably wouldn't be a nice word)

 

I will call. Each of the two times were done at two different dealerships - neither replaced the bearings (at least the part was not listed on the invoice).

 

Dude it's not the belt that snaps with all that kevlar.. its the bearing that seizes or wobbles!

 

This is spot on! Contact Daniel at Ricambi and get the Hill Engineering bearings. You will be glad you did.

 

I just called the dealership and asked. The response was "we check the bearings and look for any grease leakage or looseness or if they do not spin freely. If they check out, we do not replace them which saves you $500".


I don't want to hijack the thread, but are the bearings something I can do, or is it the same risk as doing a belt replacement?

 

You have to de-tension the belt. Last I heard Ferrari says you have to change the belts if you do that.

 

So they are there to save you money? That is a good relationship to have but I am surprised at the lost opportunity to upsell you. Before I got excited about this though I might take a couple of hours and go ahead and "see" what they look like. Maybe you only put 3K miles on your car in the last 9 years. Who knows? Surely they can last up to 15K miles just like the belt.

 

Not doing bearings all the time used to be SOP and was a judgment call based on a number of factors. These days with the internet and all the disinformation spread by all the keyboard warriors and the crucifixion that follows for any shop that doesn't fix everything their way is causing shops to replace parts to please the idiots in this place among others. I don't blame them and it just drives costs even higher.


Saying it is not the belts but the bearings that fail is just ignorant. Bearings wear out, belts age. The factors dictating failure and replacement are different.

 

I do my own services and even though the tensioner bearings have always checked out and been good, I feel that for the few hundred it costs me to replace them is worth it.... but that's just me.

As far as all the 'idiots' go; all the owners are paranoid that these cars are just grenades, which they are not. Most just drop their cars off for service and repair, and can barely find the gas cap, let alone the oil dip stick, I can see why they are over protective and want to do everything to keep them running.

 

Well I'll guess I'll be one of the idiots. I've seen bearings of many different types that "looked" ok. I'm not sure what other ways they are checked. I'm assuming (yes I know what that gets me) they are sealed bearings so the inside can't really be checked. For the cost of the bearing, it makes sense to me to change them. That being said I do the same on my other cars when a belt change is needed.

 

It's communication or a lack thereof. You bring your car to someone you trust. It's ok for them to say "we don't need to replace this because -----------". As long as they stand behind their word and their warranty. If replacing the bearings ensures they feel more secure with their warranty, its OK to pay for them and the labor factored into the service. There's no wrong either way as long as there is a solid basis communicated for it IMHO and honesty goes both ways.

They might not need to be changed. The bearings and belt in my (non-zero clearance head) 928 haven't been changed since 1997. If it breaks the engine doesn't die. I dont ***** care. The cost on the 360 and Ferraris of following a similar paradigm is much higher from a consumer standpoint.

 

If you have a mechanic who will warranty over the life of a belt change (3-5 yrs) please provide names.

It is impossible to look at, or test, a bearing and make a determination that it will be good for the next 3-5 yrs. Can't even say that for a new brg with 100% certainty. There are so many variables, and really no correct answer. So I agree that

I think as Rifledriver was pointing out, whether the internet or just someone told me that someone told them that .... the non-statistical database of Ferrari maintenance issues is legendary, although I think most car brands all have similar folklore of some type.

 

Belts are supposed to be changed every 3 years. If indeed that plan is followed we see as a routine cars that have 30,000 miles in that time and cars with 900 miles in that time. Should we replace the bearings in all of them? Should we replace the tensioners in all of them? Should we replace the cam seals in all of them? Should we change the front crank seal in all of them?

There are shops happy to look you in the eye and sell all of those and there are pundits here that will say the same. There are also shops out there that are actually doing what is in the interest of a long term relationship with their customer by serving the actual needs of the customer.

You guys are making those decision for a lot of people and it is not in the best interests of anyone.

 

So to keep learning on how to take care of my car, I have this burning question because I keep seeing references to the Hill Engineering products as being superior to the OE; does replacing the bearings etc with the Hill Eng ones extend the replacement time? If no, then why not use the proven OE. My car has been 15 years trouble free with OE parts.

What is it that I'm missing?
TIA

 

In my experience building race cars, work on race cars, and building race cars engines, bearing last a lot longer than belts. I know Ferrari recommends every 3 years, however I felt it is way too early. That being said, that is just my opinion.

 

Ditto for this shop. I encourage dialogue with my clients, I make recommendations based on my experiences and research from other shops experiences. The customer is always offered the option of every part being replaced during service, however it is rarely needed. Choice of parts sourcing likewise, I try to get the best quality and warranty parts, not price.

 

Ferrari has never said replace the bearings every 3 years. They have never established a life span.

 

Hill makes good stuff. Is it better than OE? In some case yes and some no.
Sometimes it is less costly, sometimes it is to replace an NLA part.
In some cases it is an off the shelf item that is difficult to get otherwise and in some cases it is an off the shelf part with assurance it is not a low quality knock off.

None of it is bad but it is not always better.

 

My CS had a belt change in 2010 and has never had the bearings done. Runs great. I do have this work scheduled for end of this year though.