Timing Chain Adjustment - Noise? | FerrariChat

Timing Chain Adjustment - Noise?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by SouthJersey400i, Mar 1, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    I am in the middle of adjusting the timing chain.

    Procedure says to run motor at idle and turn adjuster in until it gets noisy, then back off 1/4 turn. It further says after that is done to blip throttle and check for noise. Well I went in 4/4 turn and there was no noise increase at idle. I went up top and blipped the throttle; on the back off the chain was noisy a bit of a low growl. I did not remember this noise on back off before, but I did not check it before starting the adjustment. I thought that noise on the back off would indicate a loose chain not a tight one. So I went 1/4 turn at a time up to 7/4 turns total. The back off noise continued and seemed to get a bit worse. So back down I went eventually back to my starting point before the back off noise went away. In all cases there was no tight chain noise at a steady idle.

    Thoughts please. I have left the lock not loose and car up in the air; I hope to finish this today if I get some good input.
    Ken
     
  2. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Chain stretched beyond adj. limit would be my guess. Time to roll in a new one.
     
  3. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Bruce
    I still have room to go on adjuster. Is that not a good indication of chain wear?
    Ken
     
  4. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Ken,
    Yes, that is a good indication of chain wear. I mistook your 'back off' noise to mean just that,......too loose. I now think you are describing the sound of the chain being too tight still (which would be a good thing). Maybe when it was adjusted last, the accel/decel step was skipped. I noticed the WM instructing to accelerate & decelerate to check that the chain is not noisy, & what that means leaves room for differing interpretations.
    Is that an easy/moderate accel or hard blip on the throttle?
    Did you try backing the adj. rod off further to eliminate noise during accel/decel., & further back to get a rattling (loose) chain sound?
    Bruce
     
  5. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Bruce
    I backed off enough to stop the noise on the decel; there never was noise on the acel side. That put me back to where I was since last year. Since I only drove about 3000 miles since the last adjustment and that adjustment ended with no noise in any direction, I am going to assume I got it just right last year and wear has been minimal since. How is that for positive thinking?

    I do not plan on backing off enough to get a noisy chain; my worry would be it jumps timing and then I would have a real mess.

    I think I am in good shape until next year when I will check it again and talk to a few others in person and listen to their 400 chains when I see them again. There are at least three in my area and I see them occasionally.
    Ken
    p.s. After tightening the adjuster lock nut, I got started on changing all of the poly fuel lines. That is fun and relatively clean job.
     
  6. MordaloMVD

    MordaloMVD F1 Rookie

    Sep 7, 2005
    4,222
    WA
    Full Name:
    Michael von Ditter
    If it ain't broke.........:)
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,147
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Ken- If the chain is similar to the Daytona's, mine made a real whistling noise when tightened when I last adjusted one. No trouble telling when the whistling noise started and it went away completely after backing off the tightness.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  8. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Taz
    Thanks, that is what I wanted to hear.

    Michael, I had the same thought......
    Ken
     
  9. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Ken,
    You should be good on your adjustment, it's typ. a 12Kmi adj.. Are these the fuel vent lines in the trunk you're changing out?
    Bruce
     
  10. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Bruce
    No, I just completed changing all the high pressure poly hoses around the motor. This includes four 8mm lines to from the fuel tank, twelve 6mm lines to the injectors and about ten various 5 mm lines to cold start relay and other sundry of locations. All vent relatively well.
    Ken
     
  11. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Ken,
    I remember Verrell needing sizes for a kit for the 400s, did you asssist? & what made you change yours out/signs of deterioration?
    Bruce
     
  12. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    Bruce

    I took my 400 to Verell and we measured the hoses.

    Aidan
     
  13. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Why of course, Aidan...he's pretty close to you. Thanks for doing that, I'm sure some of us will need to replace them @ some point. I've been thinking for a while now that I should stock up on it so if the time comes, I've got it. How are your cohlines holding up, & did Verrel show you what to look for when replacement is imminent?

    Bruce
     
  14. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,231
    Bruce

    Mine looked OK as far as I know - Verell didn't make any comments about them being in need of replacement or what to look for (and I didn't ask!).

    Aidan
     
  15. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Aidan,

    My understanding of the problem from Verell's & other threads is the line eventually leaks/cracks @ the barb. Like most everything else, it's @ the connection.

    Bruce
     
  16. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,679
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Verell's kit was perfect with respect to the tube lengths for the 400i; he gave about 20% extra for each of the three sizes. His tool is not perfect for the 400i's fittings. He only has the banjo cut out for the smallest of the banjo's but it is easy to tap in the banjos with a small rubber mallet. Several of the injector barbs make a 90 degree turn immediately after the barb and they do not fit in his tool. I had to do a little work with my Dremel to get them to fit.

    I don't mean to talk bad about Verell as I know his kit was mainly developed for the 308. I intend to send him a pic or two so he can try to come up with a common or custom tool for both (all) cars. I am grateful he has taken the effort to build the tool and supply the kits.

    Aidan did you have the same issue? Since you have met him please pass on the comment to him.
    Ken
     
  17. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    #17 Verell, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
    Hello Ken,
    I'm glad to hear that I got the lengths right. I've been trying to be generous in case someone messes up while the last line he's making is the longest line in the system.

    I'd greatly appreciate receiving your pix of the barb with the 90 degree bend & the mod you made to the tool. A picture of the modified tool being used would also be helpful. Please eMAIL it to:
    Verell(at)UnobtainiumSupply(dot)com (pls substitute @ and '.' as appropriate - sorry, anti-SPAM measure).

    The mold for the tool is going to need major repairs or replacing before too much longer. If/when I replace it I'd like to try to incorporate your 400 series changes.

    I'm not sure how to accommodate the larger banjo w/o making a separate top for the tool. The top is already the more complex of the 2 halves to make. I've also had good luck just using the bottom and tapping a large banjo in with a plastic mallet. Sometimes I insert a wooden dowel thru the banjo and just press down on the dowel.

    Hmm, maybe I can make the tool's banjo hole fit the larger banjo and provide an insert that goes thru the smaller banjo's thru-hole...

    Aiden, IIRc your fuel lines looked good, but like timing belts, it's hard to tell if the plastic lines are going bad until they begin failing. Certainly any hints of cracking should be considered an indication of imminent failure. I agree that where the lines are stretched to go over the barb is the most common place for cracks to begin.

    I reccommend going over all the lines with a magnifying glass at the beginning & end of each driving season and/or whenever changing oil.

    BTW, I'm now carrying the 6mm ID Stainless Steel braid covered fuel line & the crimp sleeves for the ends. I can't remember if Aiden's 400 had SS lines or not, but if they do, I'd appreciate the lengths.
     

Share This Page