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Timing chain

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Stefan Elshout, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    159
    Holland
    I'm in the process of replacing a timing chain on a 365. It came with a new replacement Renold chain without a master link so I assume it is original.
    I'm a bit reluctant to put this chain in the engine. It will be fine I'm sure but isn't there quality-wise a better type of chain available now a days. The car will be used so I just want to use the best available chain for it so that it is good to go for many more miles.
    I know the chain is a really standard and cheap industry type of chain, iso 06B-2 3/8'' duplex so there might be a better alternative (from SKF or Tsubaki) in terms of quality?
     
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  3. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2012
    629
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Arvid Andersson
    #2 Arvid, Aug 12, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
    Hi Stefan,

    I looked into this a while ago and Renold offers a new improved chain called Synergy. Although the standard Renold chain is durable the Renold Synergy seems to be the better choise with unsurpassed service life.

    They sell for about £200 for 10 ft.

    Arvid
     
  4. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    159
    Holland
    Thanks Arvid, that indeed sounds like a better alternative to the original chain.
    I'm gonne see if I can order one here at a local chain supplier. Thanks!
     
  5. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    667
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Please reply when you find a source and specification.
     
  6. Arvid

    Arvid Formula Junior
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    May 28, 2012
    629
    Norway
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    Arvid Andersson
    #5 Arvid, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Renold Synergy I have been offered is GY06B2 0.375" pitch (3/8" - 9.525mm) with 06B2-NO26 connecting link.

    The all important pitch measure is letter A.

    The newer Synergy must be a better choice when considering the 400 has the longest timing chain of all older V12's - and they are prone to stretching over time.
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  8. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    159
    Holland
    I ordered a 'Renold Blue chain'.
    You can get this chain basically everywhere, it's a 3/8'' 06B-2 chain which is just a standard industry type of chain. I ordered it thru one of the bigger bearing suppliers here.
    It comes in a length of 25ft so it should be enough for the long and short chain of 3 cars.
    They were not able to get the Renold synergy chain anymore, the blue chain is quality wise the best they could get.

    The basic chain is a Renold red chain and I know the original chain that came with the car is this 'renold red'. The Renold blue should be a better quality chain, it has solid rollers instead of the standard split bushes, wider waist plates. It should be more accurate and better fit and finish quality over the standard renold chain. It is about 4 times the price of the standard chain though but that's the least of the concerns when you have this type of engine apart.

    The sprockets and the guides on this car were worn as well. The guides might be known to wear but I was surprised about the wear on the sprockets. I checked the hardness of the original sprockets with a centre punch and that is just a joke. I think I will order all sprockets and see if I can have them hardened/heat treated.

    With some good quality components it should be a design that last many hundreds of thousends of miles but that is clearly not the case originally.
     
  9. Bill26

    Bill26 Karting

    Jun 19, 2005
    230
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Bill Murdoch
    Stefan,
    I very strongly suggest you find a source for Renolds Synergy chain - it is available and is the only choice for this duty.
    The original Ferrari chain is not a split bush type so it seems that your chain was not original and not to the correct specification. This probably why the sprockets have worn.
    Regards
    WM
     
  10. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 22, 2013
    498
    Australia
    Hi All,

    I'm looking at buying some chain for my car.
    Has anyone purchased the above Renold Synergy chain and does it fit our cars?
    The concern I have is that this chain looks to have 4 link plates (E on the diagram) while the chain in both the engines I have apart only has 3.
    I'm worried this will be too wide in the middle for the cogs.

    Any information would be greatly appreciated.

    Regards Al
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  11. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    442
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Hi Al,

    I bought a new Synergy chain from Renolds, according to the info here on Fchat , and what's specified in the WSM. I must say I didn't notice the extra link in the diagram, but side by side, as pictured, the chain I bought is the same as what was in my engine. I gave Renolds my old chain and they broke it to the correct length for me also.
    New chain is on top of the photos. The difference in length due to chain stretch can be seen in the second pic. The tension adjustment screw was almost flush with the housing when I removed it. Let me know if you want any other info. Cheers
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  13. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 22, 2013
    498
    Australia
    Thanks Tim,

    That's great news.
    With 4 link plates at 1.29mm each it would not have fit on my cogs.
    I wanted to check this before placing an order for chain for my 3 Ferrari engines and for two Ford Cosworth 2.9 V6 BOA engines (The BOA runs the same chain but even longer than the 400i).

    Cheers,
    Al
     
  14. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    3,367
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    For those that have purchased the Synergy Chain, please post where you purchased it from? I ask, as here in Canada we have 2 companies that have created themselves a monopoly (buying up all of the smaller bearing suppliers, etc) on bearings, chains, etc and so the prices are incredible...easily 5-10x more that what has been already posted.

    Thanks in advance!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  15. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 22, 2013
    498
    Australia
  16. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Al,

    In my case Renold Canada was very quick to respond (within a day) and directed me to a few distributors. There is stock, however, the price seems excessive given the prices posted a few years ago... I am getting quotes of around $800 CAN for 10 feet... This is about 3-4x more than the price in 2017.,, maybe this is the new price? Hard to say, but I am looking in Europe just to see if the prices are reasonable or not. Also... just a heads up...I was told that Renold will be increasing prices by 6% by mid August.

    With that said I will post up what I find.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  17. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,853
    North Pole AK
    Just a question and then a thought. So why does this special chain last so long? I’m not an expert but the only reason I can think of is it’s got to be made of harder/stronger steel. So if the chain is made of harder steel then will the sprockets wear out faster? Might be better to replace the chain every 40-50,000 miles instead of replacing all of the sprockets at 60,000?
     
  18. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 22, 2013
    498
    Australia
    I think the wear on the sprockets occurs as the chain stretches.

    The more the chain stretches the less teeth of the sprocket are in contact with the chain.
    A new chain will spread the load over more teeth.
    A stretched chain will spread the load over fewer teeth causing greater stress and wearing the sprocket faster.
     
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  19. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    936
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
  20. D.J

    D.J Karting

    Mar 17, 2015
    92
    Perth WA
    Hi Al,
    I bought the Synergy chain from Renold in Perth less than six months ago, they had it in stock.

    70A Pilbara Street Welshpool WA 6106. Tel: +61 (0) 8 9471 5800. Fax:+61 (0) 8 9479 1364. Email: pthsales@renold.com.au. Web: www.renold.com.au ...

    Was $238.00 for 10 feet plus two links


     
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  21. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,853
    North Pole AK
    Thx for posting. I’ve always used 15-50 but that was mainly because it had a higher zinc content. It’s good to know about how the lower number changes the oil.
     
  22. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    442
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    I got mine from the Sydney shop, they were pretty helpful. Similar price to what DJ paid. I'd need to double check my receipt. Perth might be cheaper!
     
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  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    3,367
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Jim,

    I cannot comment about the original/factory chain, but the Synergy Chain (GY06B2) has a tensile strength of 16900 Newtons ... or about 3800 lbs. Consequently, I would bet that the forces on our chain are much less than this amount and so would contribute to its longevity.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    3,367
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day DJ and Tim,

    Thanks for posting and providing some numbers... it would seem that Monopolies are alive and well here in Canada :( ...

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  25. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    442
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Hi Sam, I dunno what the Canadian chain monopoly is charging, but Maranello classic parts have the chains for $115 GBP or about $200 CAD, plus postage. If there's any other parts you need from Ferrari, it might be worth ordering it from them. I can price up sending the full 10 ft of chain for you from here, but it probably won't save you much. Postage seems to be more expensive these days...
     
  26. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    3,367
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Tim,

    Up here the Renold's Distributors are charging around $800 CAD for 10 feet of chain... So... the same chain in your end of the World looks to be about $230 AUS (AUS and CAD are relatively close is exchange rates) which is about 4x as much as the distributors want here. Thanks for your offer to send me a chain if needed. However, it will be some time before I get to my engine bay, as I have not yet installed my suspension bits (I have not had the time to paint my frame).

    Also, thanks for posting up about Maranello UK and their prices... which seems very reasonable. Interestingly, I had some very good experiences with Maranello part prices. I bought two NOS door lock cylinders with keys for about $80 (my originals were damaged by someone using the wrong key) and a NOS driver's side chrome door mirror for $40. Both times I had to provide proof that I owned the car and in so doing they sold me the parts.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  27. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    3,367
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    Just a follow up on this... So far I have been unable to find stock in Europe and so I have not received any pricing. In the US a few suppliers did respond, but they also do not have stock (5-6 week delivery). Pricing was given as $29.75 USD Per foot so $297.50 USD for 10 feet.

    As an alternative,Tsubaki (a Japanese manufacturer), was given as an alternate (Part number RF06B-2RB). The Tsubaki specs look almost identical to the Renold Synergy specs. Canadian pricing is given as $38.24 CAN ($30.44 USD) per foot... which is about 1/2 of the Renold Canadian Pricing.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  28. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 22, 2013
    498
    Australia
    I received a reply from Renold in Sydney and they have this chain available for -

    $300.21 + GST per box and $10.21 + GST each for the connectors.
    Each 10 foot box comes with a connector.

    Apparently there has been a recent increase in price due to rising steel prices.

    Cheers,
    Al
     

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