Timing Cover / Water Pump Removal - Help! | FerrariChat

Timing Cover / Water Pump Removal - Help!

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by wda24729, Dec 2, 2017.

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  1. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Hello again! Im looking at removing the timing cover now and obviously need to remove the oil / water pump housing.

    Am I right in thinking I need to release the water pump shaft nut from inside the engine case and can access it by just dropping the sump cover?
     
  2. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
    Yes, the oil pan needs come off to access the back side of the oil and water pumps. Be careful, there is a hidden chain tensioner for the auxiliary chain that drives the pumps and it is fragile.
     
  3. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    This car just gets better and bettter....thanks Larry
     
  4. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
    It's full of surprises... sometimes it feels like it's fighting you all the way.


    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
  5. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Just went out this morning and removed the sump cover but it looks like the entire sump body has to come off to get to that nut. Is this correct?
     
  6. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Mar 20, 2004
    7,577
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Which nut are you referring to ? The nut "28" has nothing to do with releasing the timing cover. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
  8. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Yep, that it. This is what mine now looks like after removing the entire sump assembly :( So its those two nuts I release which allows the shafts to pull out?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
    That's it. Don't forget about the chain tensioner hidden way up in there.
     
  10. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Yes, I see him under the right sprocket.

    I'll have a crack at this tomorrow but just to confirm, when I pull the shafts the sprockets will drop? Did you turn the engine back up the right way to remove the water pump casing?
     
  11. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
    I actually have my engine supported from the sides instead of the end, so I was able to position it front cover pointed down when I was attacking the pumps. In fact you can see my shoe in the bottom right corner of my picture.
     
  12. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    If you loosen both nuts you can slide the 2 sprockets of the shaft while pulling the oil pump/water pump case. They are different in diameter so keep the right sprocket at the right shaft.
    If you think you'll have to go this far to replace that one small coolant hose between the water pump and the casing it is quite an 'interesting' design.
     
  13. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Thanks guys. I actually want to change the tensioners along with having a look to see what else is in there that might need doing. An interesting design indeed, although apparently the pipe is replaceable with the cover still in place, there's another thread on it where someone was successful insitu.
     
  14. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    I just ended up replacing everything over there. Everything was (in my case) to good to be called worn out but to bad to put back in there.
    I noticed the sprockets are really soft material and wear out quickly. I had most of the sprockets made new out of good quality material and had them nitrided for a good wear resistant surface.
    Than the best quality chains, new guides and let's hope it will last a bit more miles than original.

    I measured some original gears and the outside diameter of an identical gear was in some cases a millimetre larger in diameter than the other. They did not take that job to serious in the factory I guess.
     
  15. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Eek! Which chain and tensioners did you go for?
     
  16. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Its off, but this is getting all a bit stupid! The left hand chain guide appears to be held in with internally threaded shafts, but it would appear the face of the timing casing has been punched over to stop them coming out, not that they would as they are held against the case when installed. Am I reading this right?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. larryg

    larryg Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    232
    Louisville, KY
    Full Name:
    Larryg
    I don't recall having any issues getting ours out. Unfortunately, I don't have any great pictures of the area. This is about the best I have...

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    I had all the tensioners replaced by SF parts. I had some issues with them though, the small one was the wrong type and the big one was to wide, so after tensioning all front cover bolts I noticed it did not want to move. I told them about the issue so I hope they fixed it.
    The bushings should just come out with some sort of puller system, but it took me half a day, they were really stuck in there and you only have M4? thread to work with...
     
  19. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    For the chain, go for a Renold Synery 06B2 chain (sometimes also called Renold Black box chain). I installed a slightly cheaper Renold Blue though because i could not get the Synergy. I still have about 15ft of chain left.
    I would not trust any unknown quality chain you might get thru one of the suppliers.
     
  20. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Thanks Larry / Stefan. Im going to put everything through the parts washer today, get it up on the bench and have a crack at it later.

    I've researched those chains also and looks like I can get the 06B2 readily in the UK but need to buy 25ft of it! :(
     
  21. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    166
    Holland
    If you want I can also send you the length of chain needed from my 25ft of Renold blue chain. I have quite some left and would keep it in case I can use it for another one but if I can help you out with it.....
     
  22. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
    1,000
    Devon, UK
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Hi Stefan, many thanks for your offer but Ive have managed to buy a 10ft length locally. Thanks again
     

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