Buy

Timingbelt kit - Superformance

Discussion in '308/328' started by DanishCarnut, Sep 30, 2021.

  1. DanishCarnut

    DanishCarnut Rookie

    Dec 11, 2018
    37
    Denmark
    Full Name:
    Heine Hansen
    Any experience with the kit from Superformance. Sounds very cheap...
    Only 90 Pounds ($120) for a complete kit with belts and tensioners. Do I dare to order/use it ?
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. robertcope

    robertcope Karting

    May 3, 2021
    184
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    Timing belt and tensioner bearings are pretty cheap. I would make sure you got the Hill Engineering bearings. I suspect that does not include accessory belts, which I'd also replace when doing the timing belt work.
     
    mike996, 308 milano and thorn like this.
  4. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,237
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    The price quoted probably is not with the Hill bearings. They seem to be around $160-170 a pair right now. If it does include the Hill's, it's a heckuva deal!
     
  5. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,164
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    FWIW, I don't understand the preoccupation with Hill Engineering bearings. We hear about broken belts, sheared teeth, belts walking, etc., but Google "Ferrari 308 failed tensioner" and you come up with nothing. Am I missing something? If you change your belts and tensioners every five years, and use OEM quality tensioners isn't that good enough?
     
    pshoejberg likes this.
  6. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,032
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    Ok, here is some heresy. The tensioner bearings on my '87 328 were replaced when I had the car serviced by a professional shop in 1995 or 1996. From that point onward I did the service every 5 to 7 years myself. Each time I did the service I inspected the tensioners for any wobble, roughness in turning, or grease seepage. None was ever present. I continued using the same tensioners until 2018 when I switched to Hill Engineering bearings during that belt change. Neither bearing ever exhibited any maladies but I changed them anyway. The vehicle was driven about 1000 miles every year. During those belt services I did notice some roughness in the water pump tensioner bearing and replaced the two bearings inside that pulley.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,202
    Tallahassee, FL
    Some people shop for auto parts on RockAuto, typing in the year/make/model and then choose the cheapest part in the list. After all - if it bolts to the car, it must be good enough, right?

    Others look for parts that they believe are the best available.

    It's all about your comfort level, and your budget.
     
    Arvid likes this.
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    4,210
    Uk
    Eurospares do service kits that are good value inc timing bits. They take a bit of finding from the front page
     
  10. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    2,695
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    I replaced my bearings with the Hills in 2013.

    There are a few threads on how bearings fail. In them, there are comments (by Martin308GTB) (?) that a flawed bearing will fail shortly after installation and that (unflawed) bearings will last (iirc) tens of thousands of hours of operation. Once a bearing proves itself viable, it probably will last a long time. Replacing it risks installing a new bad bearing.

    On that basis, I, like you, inspected but did not replace my bearings when I changed my belts again in 2019.
     
  11. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    262
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    The Superformance kit contains SKF bearings and Dayco belts. I've used this combination since 2004, changing belts every five years (approx 8000 miles). Bearings after ten years.
    After ten years (16000 miles) the bearings seemed "as new". Likewise the auxiliary belts; a set of which is now more expensive than the cam belt kit. So these also get changed every ten years (given my annual mileage and non aggressive driving routine).
    As mentioned by Lawrence, I have also had to change the water pump tensioner pulley bearings on one occasion. I'm not sure whether this will become a regular occurrence due to the design of the system, or the previous owner had overtightened the water pump belt.
     
    Dino246gt likes this.
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,237
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    I installed Hills when I did my first belt change. I have since done two more and did not replace the bearings because there was no reason to do so. I'd say the same about any other bearings- if they show no sign of roughness, etc, there is no need to replace them. Does anybody replace wheel bearings every few years? ;)
     
  14. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
    1,347
    California SF area
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I put the Hills on too but, as noted, there wasn't anything wrong with the OEM bearings. I also replaced the outer drive bearings because there is a member in our group who had one fail and I noted that the '84 and '85 QV's have larger bearings than the '83 so I figured there must have been a reason they did that. So yea, Hill makes a good bearing but somehow that got translated into "all the others are junk" and no, I don't think that is true. This is probably just the result of marketing tactics where one would dis their competitors. Maybe not Hill themselves but some of the vendors that are selling them. I think Ricambi is one who routinely implies that if you don't buy their stuff you're taking a chance. It seems to work as there are many here who believe it.
     
    Brian A likes this.
  15. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,164
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    References to "Rock Auto" don't apply here since even the least expensive tensioner bearing will outperform the maintenance schedule. Personally, I could never see going through the labor of changing belts and not changing tensioners. But I don't see the point in wasting money either. A lot of the chat you hear about a particular tensioner being problematic is from people justifying to themselves that paying for the most expensive solution for their problem was worthwhile.
     
  16. robertcope

    robertcope Karting

    May 3, 2021
    184
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Robert B. Cope
    I don't know about anyone else, but I just wanted to save the reciprocating weight that the Hill bearings offer. That's extra power!

    (just kidding)
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  17. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,202
    Tallahassee, FL
    Respectfully, it sometimes does. Look at the situation with 308 water pumps, for example. People with decades of working on these cars have called most of the current offerings junk. Rough castings, porosity issues, etc. Similar issues exist with head gaskets. These very parts are being sold as "OEM equivalent", yet they aren't. SKF bearings - though good, yes - are among the most counterfeited bearings in the world.

    Apples and oranges, but: on a regular basis, I've advised Honda DIY guys to avoid cheap crank sensors and starters. The general reply always involves something about "overpriced Honda parts", and "the one I got from AutoZone is just fine." Roll the dice, sure... but I've replaced enough 3-month old starters, alternators, and sensors to realize that when I'm buying parts for my own cars, I'll edge towards paying a bit more to get what I consider the best.

    If most people hear haven't had any issues with their bearings - that's great, and I'm pleased to hear it... I'm simply addressing the question that was "What am I missing?" on choosing the Hill products. The "miss" is "some people believe they're better, and will pay for better."
     
    Arvid likes this.
  18. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2003
    29,468
    PNW
    Full Name:
    John
    I learned that lesson years ago after replacing the same starter three times in a car. I don't care if that cheap part from (used to be Schuck's around my neck of the woods) has a lifetime warranty. If it keeps dying and I have to keep replacing it, it's ****. Funny thing was on the third one they told me they wouldn't honor the "lifetime" replacement again....so what exactly does "lifetime" mean then?!?! ;)
     
  19. ragtop1

    ragtop1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2006
    3,813
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Larry Warren
    I put the Superformance kit on my 308 in 2018 service schedule. Didn't think anything of it. No issues in 2000 miles and running great.
     
  20. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,237
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    "Funny thing was on the third one they told me they wouldn't honor the "lifetime" replacement again....so what exactly does "lifetime" mean then?"

    Nowadays I think it means that the product is guaranteed for the lifetime of the product! So... If it fails, it is automatically by definition, beyond the product's lifetime! :)
     
    308 milano likes this.
  21. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,211
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    From what I have seen. The new tensioner bearings on the market are actually formed around the bearing. Not like the old style where the bearings could fall out.
     
  22. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,164
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Nice attempt to change the subject. The point I was making is that you don't need to pay more for tensioner bearings you can get from reputable sources. Sources such as over the counter at a Ferrari dealer or from a reputable source such as Partsource or elsewhere. Can you find lousy repro parts for a Ferrari? Sure. But what does that have to do with the failure rate of tensioner bearings?
     
  23. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,202
    Tallahassee, FL
    I think I've written all my thoughts on the subject already; at least those that might (or might not) contribute to the decision-making of parts. It feels like it's starting to become an edgier conversation than I wish to have, so I'll just leave it at that. Cheers :)
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  24. tatcat

    tatcat F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 3, 2001
    9,231
    panama city beach FL
    Full Name:
    rick c
    Used them since '05
    Getting ready for the fourth set
    No problem and good people to deal with
     
  25. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    1,984
    PR, TX, GV
    Full Name:
    Jaime
    God I hope so!!!!
     
  26. ragtop1

    ragtop1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2006
    3,813
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Larry Warren
    lol if I could only get a conclusive answer on how many more miles the bearings and belts will last
     
    Saabguy and Jakuzzi like this.
  27. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    9,429
    My original tensioner bearings/belts went 25 years,30k miles before they were changed due to a bad lower cam drive bearing failure. Tensioner bearing were fine. Current belts/tensioners are 11 years old. I'll leave it at that.
     
    ragtop1 likes this.
  28. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,032
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    Every person has their own conclusive answer. Whatever assuages your fear of catastrophe is your correct answer. For me, I let my tensioner bearings go from the mid 90's until 2017 when I replaced them with Hill Engineering bearings. With every belt change the bearings seemed fine to me but I changed them anyway after almost 20 years. One of the tensioner bearings for the water pump was on the way out so I changed them when I changed the cam belt tensioner bearings. For me, I change the cam belts every 5 to 7 years putting only about 1k miles on the 328 a year ( my assuagement). Cam belt tensioner bearings are on the slack side of the belt drive so the load on them is light.
     
    derekw, Jakuzzi and ragtop1 like this.

Share This Page