(TIP) birdman slow window fix

Thanks. I did my driver's side and it was such a PITA that I never did the passenger side yet because it still moves (sorta)

 

I found that if you wind the spool so that only one cable is actually wound (so, one straight out and four turns on the other cable) and you have them split across that farthest mounting boss it won't matter if the cable isn't perfectly in the grooves. Just re-route the entire cable (don't mount to the window just yet) - the tensioner pully will be out of position and that is ok. Then run the window switch up and down until the cable rewinds itself on the spool. At that point, the tensioner pulley will be pretty loose so just re-adjust and you are all set to attach the window to the cable.

It really helps if you have some bright paint on the cable where it was attached originally to the window for a reference. The worst part for me was the re-routing of the cable and what line runs behind what when they cross. One in front and one behind. I spent a bunch of time on a YT video on this. Just search for Ferrari 308 Window Regulator on YT.

Franny

 

Birdman’s instruction is great but as far as video tutorial for 308 window fix, this is the best by far and the only video that I know of.

 

The video tutorial is great for the motor and cable system, but she really should have spent an extra $10 to add the two relays to get 12V to the motor, while the door panel was off. I've never seen a "modern speed" window in a 308 without some sort of relay system. Grease and cabling alone is never going to get you there, since there's still only 7,8,9 volts getting to the motor.

 

You got it..........it took me a few hours to figure all that out but my windows are fast. Screw the relays.

 

Chris, I have a friends who bought the relays, he said yea it did improve the speed but then he decided to do it the right way by taking it apart clean thoroughly just like the video and after that it was a night and day different so, just out of curiosity, my friend installed the relay back and guess what? It did NOT make any difference so he just he took the relay off and that’s that.

 

I am working on an automated system for the 250 series Ferrari. The hand wind up windows are such a pain........I need faster windows. Could a relay possibly help??????

 

Just looked at the video, timed her window then pulled up my video....almost exactly the same times, but I needed relays to get there on the passenger side, the relays didn't do much on the drivers side really. Conversely, cleaning really helped my driver's side but did little to improve the passenger side as it has clearly been worked on once already, it was pretty good grease wise. Electrically the OEM design looks ok, a bit heavy and bulky but ok functionally, it just comes down to the condition of the wiring, grounds and such after all these years I guess.

 

As to "Clean & Regrease won't much without adding relays" - that's simply false. Voltage dropping can and will (obviously) make windows slow, but even with great power and grounds you can have slow-creep windows if the gears can't move smoothly. My windows were easily 2-3x faster once I cleaned and regreased the gearing.

 

I also replace the window channel liner. Helped a great deal along with clean/re grease.

 

For this problem there's this tool. I had one which came together with a NOS window motor. After the old an brittle plastic cracked I made it via 3D-print and sold a few to some FChatters.

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The original when it was still okay:

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Best from Germany
Martin

 

Where can I get this tool. I have to do this at some point on my car so I know I'll need it.

 

From me for instance. Though due to Covid-19 circumstances I have some difficulties sending such small items across the big pond these days.
But if you are seriously interested, drop me a private message (start a conversation) and we can discuss alternatives.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

The cheaper "accelerator relay units", aren't very useful These relays don't pull voltage directly from the fuse board, but rather try to improve ground. If you pull power from the fuse panel, you should be seeing above 12V at the motor. This requires running 2 new wires through the door hinge area. I should have been more clear: just slapping any relay system in the door doesn't work. It must be getting a dedicated power line to the relays. There are good and bad kits. The "good" kits are more work, but will get 12V to the window motor. There are lots of threads discussing this. Here's one:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/slow-window-fix-accelerator-module.620272/

Greasing is great, as her video shows great improvement. But, great improvement, doesn't mean great performance, as she herself says, and she seems to acknowledge and accept the mediocre speed after greasing. She did the hard part, removing the panel and dealing with the cabling. Probably took several hours. Install two Bosch 0332019110 relays for $6 each and she wouldn't have to be satisfied with a less-slow window, and still having to make excuses to any passenger who uses the window.

 

Where is the physical shared ground for the windows? (I don't mean in the circuit schematic sense - i mean - where is the actual grounding point in the car for that wire.)

 

Well said Chris. Just to nail it; the ideal solution is to TWO *separate wires pulled to the door, one from ground on the chassis and one from fused +12V. Then you add two relays in the door to slave the switch function. This will give you the following benefits if you have a WELL maintained system (New grease in motor and wire wheels, new wire, new window channels and correct door geometry = Less window friction and last but not least the window switch must be in good condition and NOT burned on the contact points):

1. The relays will protect your window switch from high current and the switch will live longer.
2. Your window will run slightly faster up and down, but in my opinion this doesn't make any big difference.
3. If you have a lesser well maintained system then the speed will increase more significant....But as they say....it's like pissing in your pants.....-

Best, Peter

* The two separate wires can be avoided if you choose to install the two relays for each door inside the car and hack into the door harness connector and connect up to the two existing wires going to the window motor. But it is not easy to find space for the relays inside the car and it feels a bit intrusive to hack into the harness connector.

 

Let the window races begin!

Serious though, what kind of down/up times are you guys seeing? Hers were about 8 sec maybe a little less on the video.

After cleaning and with relays mounted in the relay panel, pulling power from a new modern, spade-type fuse panel and grounding through a new, dedicated ground line, I get:
6.8sec drivers side
7.8sec passenger side
on the fully charged battery and engine off (not that I have a choice there) the same way she operated hers. The 1 sec difference on mine is quite noticeable as the pass starts slowing about 1/2 up and is clearly straining at the top but I couldn't figure out way, but clearly a mechanical not electrical issue..maybe new tracks are in order. I did not run new wires out to the doors as I saw nothing wrong wire the old wires, I pulled them off the switch and up to the new relays, then smaller signal only wires down to the switches so I believe the wiring is about the best is can be.

What times are the rest of you thinking are good/bad so we have number vs fast/slow which honestly could mean anything to anyone?

 

I've commented on this before, but my '79 GTB didn't have dedicated ground wires from the door/motor to the chassis. Each door relied on the door hinges as ground contact from the door to the chassis!

Once I cleaned up the motors, lubed everything and ran ground wires it all worked pretty good. GM good? No but a lot better.

Also, isn't it true that some models, mine in particular can't use the relays?

 

Any circuit can be rewired so no so I'd be surprised if there is any model that can't use relays, but there may not be a "kit" for your car, don't know.

Can you time them down and back up so there is a number for "pretty good"? I suspect a lto of the discussion is people talking about windows moving the same speed but disagreeing on whether or not they are happy with that speed.

 

Sometimes slow windows are simply caused by the switches and I always like to begin with the easy things.. I have started a thread about it some time ago:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/slow-windows-easy-first-try-to-improve-things.599007/

Best from Germany
Martin