Tire decision

Standard summer tyre fits are
245/35/20 fronts 295/35/20 rears

The recommended winter tyres are different.

 

Always wonder why Ferrari uses the same aspect ratio for both. Very different from other manufacturers.

 

Get the updated Lusso tyres. Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. 245/35R20 - 295/35R20.

Make sure it's the K1 spec tyres. The similar K2 tyres are for the Portofino and the rears are narrower.

 

I just replaced the Pirelli Zero my FF came with, with the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - A VERY good upgrade I might say (and I have not even tracked my FF yet). So far I have only positives to say about changing to Michelin PS4s. Better grip in rain, smoother, more responsive and for some reason just works so much better.

 

Tire rack now list Vredestein for the ff never heard of them , any info I’m a PS4 guy but interesting that they produce ff tires.

 

Those are not Ferrari specific tyres. Ever since Tire Rack updated their website, it's been a bit of a mess in terms of OE tyres. They are simply just the correct size. My brother had that model tyre on a Merc, and it was not a pleasant experience.

 

Sad not about the tire but the faith I’ve put in Tire Rack over the years, Also the reason I’ve used Michelin for ever..

 

What experience did he have?

 

They were noisy and had a very harsh ride. Add to that they did not grip very well in both dry and wet conditions.

 

The Pilot Sport 4S are great summer tires. I got mine at 4wheelonline. These Michelin tires are very quiet and comfortable. Stopping power on the dry and wet roads is amazing.

 

The MPS4S is definitely the way to go. It's a huge shame it's not available for the 812 and F8/488/Pista. That's one little area where I find that the 812 is a bit behind from the cars driving on MPS4S vs. PZero PZ4. During hard breaking, they grip a bit less.

 

The 4S is a competitor of the PZ4 Corsa, which is even grippier. Also it is matter of warm up; Pirellis like heat, while Michelins tend to need less heat, but on the other hand get to overheat and lose grip sooner.

 

Not sure I follow you here. From what I can tell, the PZero PZ4 and 4S are the competitors, as they are both full on street summer tyres. They also have the same wear rating of 300 and they both look to be very street oriented tread wise.
Now the wear rating of the PZC4 tyre is 80 - that's really low. Compare that to the Trofeo R which has a rating of 60, at which point you're talking R compounds. The Michelin Sport Cup 2 has a wear rating of 180 just to compare.

The PZC4 is a very soft tyre that was developed for the TdF, where the PZ4 is the street tyre for the 812. The 4S is simply the successor to the MPSS street tyre that had the same wear rating - and they were developed for the Lusso and Portofino so far.

When we did the brake test that day, the tyre temps were around 47-49 degrees C and the car had been driven well for about 40 minutes already. That's not too bad for a street tyre. We did about four tests, and while the temps rose, the tyre performance did not change.

 

Let me enlighten you then.
Pirelli PZ4 is the equivalent of the Michelin PS4.
Pirelli PZ4 Corsa is the equivalent of the Michelin PS4S.
Pirelli Trofeo is the equivalent of the the Michelin Cup 2.
Pirelli Trofeo R is the equivalent of the Michelin Cup 2 R.

PS: Wear rating is per each manufacturer and not an absolute number.

 

I have the Cup 2's on right now and god they are so much fun

 

Ehm no.
The Michelin PS4 replace the PS3 and it is UHPS so equivalent to a PZERO Nero GT
The Pirelli trofeo is the old Track & competion tire replaced by the R version
So:
Pirelli PZERO PZ4 is the equivalent of the Michelin PS4S.
Pirelli PZERO CORSA PZ4 is the equivalent of the Michelin Cup 2
Pirelli Trofeo R is the equivalent of the Michelin Cup 2 R.

Luque

 

The Nero GT is a legacy tyre, intended for the aftermarket (they are not factory fitted).
The PZ4 starts from 18'', just like the PS4S, the PS4 starts from 16'. This is also reinforced by the pricing which puts the PS4S close to the Corsas. Thus my comparison stands.

 

Dude, I have just quoted the first UHPS from Pirelli while you refer to a tire that is out of production from 4 years (the trofeo).
Sorry but your comparison don't stand at all.
The Pzero with all the version done in this years is the equivalent of the Michelin PS2 than the Supersport and now of the PS4S both with homologations for all sport car makers (Porsche Mercedes McLaren Ferrari Lamborghini). The PS4 replace the PS3 and will you never see it on a Ferrari
Pricing has nothing to do with any comparison, Michelin is always been the most expensive brand in the market

Luque

 

I am sorry "dude", but you are talking nonsense...

This is the correct comparison and car magazines get it: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Auto-Bild-Sports-Car-Tyre-Test.htm

 

This is correct.

The MPS4 had nothing to do with the MPSS, just like the MPS3 had nothing to do with the MPSS. They were for a completely different market all together.

The MPSS was still in production while the MPS3 and MPS4 was launched and produced. To quote a Michelin technical representative. "Think of the PS4 as a brother to the MPSS and a cousin to the PS3". It would seem that the PS4 is in fact a new tyre that is kind of its own, made specifically for the hot hatch market and other mid range performance oriented cars.

You may not like it, but he is in fact right. The journalist in your article is just comparing the two, but it does not mean it's the direct competing tyre discarding the MPS4S from the comparison.

Here's the Road & Track review between the MPSS and the MPS4S.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a32878/michelin-pilot-sport-4s-test/

Here are their direct comparison between the PZ4 and MPS4S. I don't think Pirelli would allow this comparison if they felt the tyre was in a completely different category.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15092360/2017-performance-summer-tire-test-feature/

Regarding the wear indication. You are 100% correct in the statement that they are not absolutes between manufactures. BUT, a 300 wear tyre and an 80 wear tyre, is so far apart that they will never be anything alike. The MPSS and 4S are both 300, and it's the same manufacture. The PS3 and PS4 are both 320, and it's the same manufacture. Looking at how track specific the PZero Corsa 4 is and then comparing it to the Michelin 4S, it makes absolutely no sense that Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Porsche, would homologate a tyre that is so track specific for their mid range fast saloons such as the E43, BMW 4 series, Audi S4 etc.
The Sport Cup 2 wears a lot faster than the MPSS and 4S, and while Ferrari homologate the 4S for both the Portofino and Lusso, they have also homologated the PZ4. But logically it would make sense to homologate the competing tyres, which according to you would mean homologating the PZ4C and the 4S - yet they have not.

Lastly. When Michelin debuted the 4S, it was directly refereed to as the MPSS successor on their website.

 

I have this on good authority, from Pirelli themselves. At the end of the day the customer chooses based on price. When the PZ4 Cors costs about the same as the PS4S, the customer will choose between those two.

The Corsa is not track specific, the Trofeo R is.

The Corsa is offered in K1-K2 Ferrari specs for some models.

Which makes my point. The MPSS was the top Michelin, bar the Cup.

 

The Corsa 4 F specific tyre is only offered for the Pista and TdF. K is specific to Michelin. You cannot order a Lusso, 488 GTB, F8, 812 Portofino and have the factory put on Corsa tyres. They will not put on Cup 2 tyres either.

The argument regarding the price is not that important. They are closely priced, and I am yet to meet a Ferrari customer that orders tyres based on such a small price difference. You know as well as I do, when you order a new F car, you don't pay any difference whether your car is delivered with Michelin or Pirelli.

The Corsa is as track specific as the Cup 2. The difference is that the Trofeo R is an R compound tyre with even less tread than the Corsa and Cup 2.

I spoke to a Pirelli tech last year that compared the PZ4 directly to the 4S.

Not sure how my last comment proves your point. The MPSS was indeed the top pure street tyre, now the 4S is. Back when the MPSS was king, the competing tyre was the P Zero. The Cup had the P Zero Corsa System as a competitor for years. The Corsa 4 is simply the succossor to the Corsa System tyres - like the Cup 2 is the successor to the Cup+.

Here's my guess on why you were told what you were told regarding price. Pirelli had a huge struggle against the MPSS, and I would not be one bit surprise if a rep from Pirelli did a skewed comparison. This is not exactly a new thing.

And again, do you really think a Pirelli 80 rating tyre is close to a Michelin 300? If that's the case and the 4S with it's 300 rating is like the Cup 2 which has a 180 rating, which is same manufacture, how do you explain that difference?
How do you explain the Cup 2 R that has a wear indication of 60 like the Trofeo R, if a Micheline is comparable to a Pirelli 80? If a 300 Michelin is as soft as a Pirelli 80, that would make the Mihcelin 60 equal to, I don't know, bubble gum.
And if a Pirelli 80 rating is a pure street tyre like the MPSS and 4S, what does that make a Pirelli tyre with a 300 rating like the PZ4? That seems like the tyre for a commercial van by comparison.

 

I’m impressed about your knowledge on tyrereviews.

I wonder why Ferrari engineers did not consult this website. They continue to homologate as Max performance Summer tires Pzero and Supersport and now PS4S for all the production range

Also the SP1/SP2 will have Pzero PZ4 dedicated Ferrari homologation very soon

Semislicks like Pzero Corsa (LaFerrari / F12TDF) and PSC2 (Speciale / Pista) are only used for special series.

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PS4 not received despite tyrereviews. And trofeo is out of production from 2015.

Luque