Tires Pilot Sport vs PZero ??

No specific experience on these two tires on this application, but what's the age (in miles, years and tread depth) of the tires being compared, what's the treadwear rating on the sidewall of both (for what that number is actually worth) what's the usage history on both sets? Do reviews on Tire Rack relate similar experiences?

 

Short answer, if you want stick, my opinion is get the PZeros.

I played around with Michelins and Pirellis a bit, but on an M3, not a California. Mix of street and some "light" track use (DE).

A few thoughts/opinions - apologies if this is obvious stuff as I know you are quite aware of car performance factors...

My personal experience is that the Pirellis were stickier early on, but went away quicker; the Michelins felt lower grip, but fell off less and were more consistent over time. Both were more sensitive to pressures than I thought. I'd have to check the compounds on my tires (which were not California sized) but the PZeros were softer.

Are you seeing any strange wear patterns? I now have a habit of getting under the car and checking the inside shoulder of the rear tires....my cars have some negative camber and when it goes, it all goes. Unsure what Cali rear suspension setup is.

From your post, sounds like you are having wheelspin issues under power, or the tires are getting loaded up and breaking loose as you come onto power on exit? Or does the electronics think they are? I've been amazed at how conservative (i.e. low threshold) the ASR is on my F430C (though a few times, grateful in the wet)

I'd follow the typical drill....pressures? alignment? driving style? (i.e. you can induce a lot based on how you enter, exit, brake, apply throttle).

IMHO Michelin makes a good tire, but given you are likely careful in the wet (all these tires are marginal in rain) and use winter tires, I wonder if Michelin makes a Pilot Sport Cup-esque flavor....sticks but don't last.

Hope this helps

 

I personally have had great experiences w Michelin tires. Pilot sport 2s on my 997 and i specifically requested pilot supersports for my 458. So far none of the slippery sensation you describe. According to tire racks database, the Ferrari spec oem michelins originate from France.

 

Rick -

No doubt you know the Cali better than anyone. I love that you drive it every day, rain or shine!

One (last) thing I might consider is playing with the pressures in the rears. Even side wear but more in the middle? I might drop a the pressure a bit and see if that helps get a larger contact patch. It may not solve it, or make the Michelins any better, but might help isolate the issue.

Curious if the pavement temperature (and tire temp) has any noticeable sensitivity?
I rarely think about thaton the road, other than a very cold day when driving with ultra summer-only tires, but I track of all of that (pun intended) on the race track as it's quite noticeable.

Look forward to hearing how the "tire tests" progress. Given your experience on the SS, I'd try PZeros for sure...

 

Of course it makes sense to go back to the brand you have had good experiences with so you can't be faulted for that, but I'd also point out that going to a different model within the same manufacturer (Pilot SS) likely makes much of the experience with another model moot. In addition, going to an aftermarket tire vs. OE can make a significant difference.
Aftermarket tires usually have a different compound than the same brand/model delivered on the car. That's why you sometimes see Tire Rack selling "OE" tires. On most applications, the aftermarket tire is much more durable than the OE product as factory engineers demand a lot of characteristics that hurt longevity, but replacement customers forget all that (and they're coming from blasted out old tires) and get excited about long tread life. I don't know for sure how much this holds up in the ultra high performance end of the market.

 

Check out the tread wear ratings. Corsa-60 P-Zero-220 Super Sport-300

Of course the super sports are not as sticky. They are intended to last longer.

 

Pilot Super Sports are OE on the 599 GTO. But then it comes with Shell oil in it, too.

 

I've got nothing but praise for the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. Did you play with the tire pressures? They make a huge difference to grip levels. Brilliant in the wet too! I actually prefer MPSS over the much older PZeros. Lets face it they have the advantage of half a decade of extra development over the old Corsa's.

They are also now on the 458 Italia, the 599 GTO and so on. They are excellent tires and I did a back to back with them. Plus they don't heat cycle out like the PZero Corsa's after on 20 heat cycles.

Pirelli have now got the new replacement for the Corsa's now, the Pirelli Trofeo Race compound, which I expect will do battle for top track honors with the Michelin Pilot Cup race/track day comp tires.

F430GT, rad swears by Bridgestone's...

 

Super Sports are a great choice for the California. They are significantly better than the Pilot Sports. Yes I was unhappy with rear wheel spin after a few thousand miles with the old Pilot Sports? The Super Sports have really good traction.

As far as what Ferrari thinks- I'd go with what the factory likes! Guess what I saw at my service center. Stacks of brand new tires and wheels for a face off between the 458 and the McLaren MP4 .

Ferraris tire choice: no not PZeros. The Super Sport. There must have been 6 sets of wheels and tires in preparation for the track challenge between the two cars.

That's when I decided that my next choice of new tires was the Super Sport. I have 2000 miles and love them

 

I had Michelin Super Sports on my S5 and loved them. As soon as the crappy Pirelli P-Zeros on my 991-911s wear out, I will get Super Sports for it too.

 

Aah, that's what prompted the Michelin hatred earlier!
I remember having a good time down there from two different vantage points one year. One of the tickets was free and gave me a view of the pre-race grid preps I'd never experienced before! The year before that I got to go down to Indy and have a fun weekend, too, although the F1 race was a bit anti-climactic.

Embarrassing to Michelin? Sure. Relevant to the quality of their street tires? No.

 

I think the way Michelin handled it afterward said more about them than the problems they had in the race. Refund and free tickets to the next year's race was pretty stand-up of them. I did flip off a Michelin truck we passed on the drive home, though. The look on the guy's face told me it wasn't the first time it'd happened that day...

 

In the words of the inimitable Mr. Crall who posted these opinions of Pirelli's elsewhere:

"Pirellis are for lawn mowers as long as you don't go too fast."

"Pirellis are crap. We had so much trouble with them on the Ferraris I swore off them for life. And by the way, soft compunds are just a way for a lousy tire design to keep up with the good tires."

"Ferrari had so much trouble with them we were doing warranty replacement in the dealers. The only other time I have heard of that happening was with Ford/Firestone.

It cost Ferrari a bundle. I have heard they only continue to be OE is because of pressure due to country of origin.

FNA also went to some expense for equipment so testing could be carried out before the cars were even shipped to the dealer.

Think what you like but with Bridgestone, Goodyear and Michelin we had zero trouble, not ever, not once. The Pirelli's were a constant thorn in our side."

I don't think anyone's ever accused Brian of being wishy washy on a subject, but my experience/opinion of Pirelli pretty much mirrors his, and unless Pirelli comes out with a tire that grips like Gorilla glue in both dry & wet conditions, lasts 20,000 miles and doesn't cost an arm & a leg, I won't be buying any of their products any time soon.

 

+1 I swore I'd never darken a set of my rims with their rubber ever again......

For something a little different, check out the Toyo R888 - Tirerack lists them as "track & competition DOT" with treadwear at 100. Probably not the best in the wet (!) but a great dry weather tire IMHO.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Would love to hear your feedback since you really push your tires

 

I don't know about what they are currently like, but I have preferentially driven Michelins (on the street) for many years and still prefer them to anything else I have yet tried.

What concerns me now is that Michelin has not kept up production of sizes for my (admittedly outdated) equipment. First, it was the ZR-1 Corvette - I had Pilot Sports, but when they wore out, those wide rears were no longer made. Next, my Porsche 993 - standard wheel sizes, stock Targa wheels - no longer available. (you would think there would still be a market for these cars)... Finally I had to do a Holy Grail search for the rear metric TRXs on my Testarossa -ended up buying some new, but out of date, TRXs from 2006.

If this keeps up, I will be forced to change no matter what I used to like to drive.