Yes ! The complete opposite - I'm Actually twice as dum as I Have two of them. If I knew then what I know now, I would Have never bought into these cars ....go back and read what I said on page two, that will help you - post # 30
I can't give three reasons, but I will say that different cars scratch different itches. For example, I'm sure plenty of people would look at a Corvette and think that it was a completely useless vehicle. I mean, you can't haul ten sheets of plywood or a pile of gravel in the darn thing. You can't take the kids and their friends to the beach in it. For that matter you could buy a couple of perfectly good mini vans for the price of a half decent vette. So comparing an old Ferrari to a new Corvette is kind of pointless in my opinion.
If I wouldn't like a car anymore, and/or the members of the forum(s) I've joined while owning the specific car, I'd simply sell the car(s) and leave the forum(s). Save my breath for the new cars and the new crowd I would (get to/learn to) like. All problems solved. English is a foreign language to me, I'm not sure of the meaning of the term "delusional". easy to find out though. But I'm shure it has nothing to do with "generalising" or stigmatising a certain group of people ? I like my car, I have it meticulously maintained by thé dutch specialist, who, needless to say, uses first class/quality OEM parts. Hey, I also know how to wrench... So looking up the meaning of "delusional"? Well, no. Why bother. I might take offence of it, since I own a Ferrari...
I'm still puzzled, and post #30 doesn't explain what seems to be a complete and sudden about face. What happened to make you go from a lifetime Rossa brand ambassador and enthusiast to a disillusioned ex-aficionado who doesn't like the cars or it's enthusiasts any more?
Maybe BigRed is enyoing a nice holiday, with no WiFi/internet connection, and has someone hacked into his account ?!?!
Ummmm......no....Lamborghini was constructing just 200 hand built cars a year until the day Audi walked in the door in 1999. And yes, Diablos ARE an automotive masterpiece, thanks! The last special Corvette was produced in 1972.
When the cars were 15k,20k,25k I understood the attraction of people leaving their Hondas with loud mufflers etc and buying the hopes of being in a Ferrari as bad as it was at those prices just to get in. I was hoping ( not just me, but others as well ) that as prices escalated the tree would out shake some of those which it did a little. As prices escalated to over 50, 60 and over the last few years, I bit my tongue as best I could with all the negative bashing from the "poseurs" that all these cars were to expensive And should never be worth that money. Fast forward today, and it seems the world has gotten more aggressive on both sides. The side where the 99% of the population that have one think you owe them something because you have a Ferrari ( we have all experienced this at some point with out cars past and present ). And the new people still buying the wrecks in the hopes to look like someone important. I find / read that these people are full of it, and only buy for the badge , when really they should be buying a bar of soap and moving out of their trailer first. The only pride I see people taking in these cars is the fact that they " think" they own a Ferrari even though they bought a POS - as opposed to having pride in knowing there are great service techs, great club events around to join and up there car and themselves. Instead, they come on here, bash a service, or a parts price, or a paint job or whatever ....bringing the pleasure of ownership to the ground. I find it odd that people hi five GARBAGE cars page after page and are proud to swing a wrench, yet have never been to a car show to see a perfect car to know the difference and come on here claiming they know what good because they can swing a wrench. Some of you may wish to keep it a secret you know how to swing a wrench. Maybe others haven't noticed, but I think too many people are in these cars for the wrong reason - even though they say it's not. Maybe it's also me, I'm tired of defending these cars and the people that own because , but there used to be a time where people respect these cars for what they were, and maintained them according with the same respect, along with the people that worked in them. I find that respect is gone, and or dismissed drastically, making these cars "just another used car" I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me , just my observation. some of you may wish to take note, because if you wish to sell your car one day, turning off people to the car will it be a good thing for owners.
Perhaps one big improvement on the cars would be a badge for prospective owners that says "NO WIMPS".
Wow, a lotta anger there and a very broad brush your painting everyone with. Can I interest you in donating to FLM? (Ferrari Lives Matter)
Well... OK, speechless! I shouldn't say much, since I've been (incorrectly) tarred by at least 3 brushes in that post... and even though I'd say I'm not in my 308 for the wrong reasons, apparently I've already been disclaimed. I've only owned my 308 for 3 years, and have maybe seen slight hints of what you describe as jealous behavior of non-owners. I would also agree that wannabes/poseurs who talk down the price of classic Ferraris are ignorant and ill-informed. I see far more people who are enthusiastic about seeing a classic Ferrari and appreciate the opportunity to have a look at it. I disagree personally with other points you posted - I've been a Ferrari fan since I was a teenager on the Canadian Prairies where a Ferrari sighting in the 70s was extremely rare, but read Road & Track religiously. I didn't buy a wreck, but a good car that had deferred maintenance. Yes, I do my own maintenance, I bought my 308 not for a prestigious badge but for the legacy, history of racing and sports cars, and for an exciting, engaging, sports car with soul and character. I'm a mechanical engineer and I do my own maintenance because I am more careful than most mechanics - part of the maintenance work I've done is fixing up bodges and kludges performed by shop mechanics. Part of my satisfaction and pride of owning this car is doing my own work on this car, getting to know it inside and out. I'd still guess that there must have been a recent bad incident that has spurred such a negative outlook on ownership. So, are you selling either or both of your cars now?
Also a reaction to the Big red discussion: I wanted a pretty classic Italian car with some power and there are not many of those around for less than 100K. Most are either more expensive or less powerfull. And I never owned a Ferrari and as a car enthusiast I always longed for one of course. I owned a couple of Porsche's and Alfa Romeo's, but decided I really wanted a Ferrari. I sold my Alfa SZ and started looking for a 308 or 328 GTB. I found and bought one (308 GTB QV) just in time before the (already climbing) prices doubled. I love it for its fantastic looks, the sound it produces, the way it rides and everything else. I know many modern cars are cheaper, better and faster but they do not give the same sensation. If you are really into cars you pick one with your heart (emotion), not with your brains.
If Big Red's main point is that many Ferrari owners aren't legitimate vintage car enthusiasts, he is probably correct. That certainly is not unique to our marque. On the other hand, I'm sure that most members of our group have paid their dues in the vintage collector world. I started my life of cars in 1973 as a teenager doing my own work on a hopelessly rusty 1960 Austin Healey 3000. That started a steady stream of sports car projects and dreams, over 40 of them, until I bought my 308 a few years back. Most of us bear the scars of our automotive passion. We have worked in our garages in the wee hours of the night, and before dawn. We have endured the rain and mud of the car shows and flea markets. We have been stranded by the side of the road with a cantankerous engine. We have suffered the indignities of traveling 300 miles to buy or turn down a car that was wildly misrepresented. We have burned our fingers making careful adjustments to carbs or timing on a running engine. Despite all this we persist in our passion, for the challenge, the beauty, and the history of these great, but imperfect, slightly useless, sports cars.
Those last posts describe a lot of us in the 308 section. Real long time car lovers and maniac that have graduate over the years to the Ferrari because we needed another challenge and wanted to live the dream as we could. I believe many of us are good caretakers of our cars and their condition may be a lot better than many other cars maintained by dealers or shops owned by guys that don't turn wrench anf know nothing about their cars. Fchat has changed a lot over the years and I understand what Bigred is feeling. The car values have changed and it also change the type of players. I still love my 308 after 17 years of ownership and will never regret it and the two other Ferrari I've owned but I'm not sure I will ever own another again if I ever sell my 308. I lived the dream and now ready to move to something else. I still think the Ferrari experience is something to live and encourage those who want to enter it to do it and learn as we all did and get educated over the years. Let Rick(bigred) live it the way he is and hope for him to find a way to expell all the negative he got from these cars and their surrounding comunity. And BTW I'm one of those who bought a newer Corvette and enjoy it because I wanted an easier to live with car.
Hi Gordon, I guess my 17 yrs going to 18yrs of ownership I see it from a different angle than you at only 3 yrs. i have seen good owners leave the brand and cars that mirror what you and a few other have mentioned. It seems to be much more acceptable the last few years to buy the most ratty car ( price only ) and fix them, the trend has gotten worse. This maybe ok for you, but not as ok for me - and we can agree to disagree. this concept of turning a wrench has come to the point where people just shop the cheapest of parts and cars, not the price you mention. They post and say it's for the love of the brand, but it's BS ( no need for me to give examples , read some fchat threads to see yourself ) The brand is diluted now, and with tonnes of cars now on the market of all brands, there are much better cars and owners to associate with for the same price point - ( again IMO ). when I joined fchat, people celebrated pages and pages on correctness of these cars, down to the 'screws' - now I can post a coppa Bella winning car, and not one person is even interested in how to get their car to that level. Instead, someone buys a POS , and we get 4-5 pages of high fives on how you can bring that car back to life ,and people talk about cutting the frame to put in a larger radiator as being the solution to their overheating problem .... Really ??????? This is what the prestige and honor of owning a Ferrari has become of our child hood dreams? We have forgone the pursuit of excellence and correctness to make our cars like Enzo did to finding the "cheapest' solution possible without paying to drive these cars, and we celebrate that???? well guess what .... I'm not very interested in that ..... and guess what, if I had to sell my car, nobody cares of the painstaking time, effort and money I spent not to have it sitting in the sun, or driving in the rain... I've had two friends sell their Ferrari for the same reason, not wanting to be associated in the same manner. As for your selling question, I wouldn't consider selling because I've seen what they went through, and frankly, it's a joke when a good car gets compared in price to the cheapest priced car on the market and a buyer insults you. Instead, my plan is to drive them to the ground, and when I'm really ready to sell, BMW m series or Benz amg series can build me a new car as I trade in the Ferrari. I will then join the pack of putting on the wrong wheels , keeping my tool kit, warranty card, car cover, trouble light etc .... Since they are not important to go with the car , And sell them one by one over time, piece by piece on eBay so I can maximum my entire profit out of the car when and as I trade it in to a dealer. Why even bother keeping services records and the history of the car ? The consensous around here is its not needed, so I may as well use that history to kindle my camp fires. Why you ask ? Because it's what has become the trend of these cars lately in threads that these cars are not rare, therefore I will treat it like just another used car like everyone else posts. Seems to be a clapped out car is more celebrated around here anyway. I sure hope the shop owners that really fix these cars for the left over users have the patience, but I see those people thinning the heard and being more rare now than in the past and being replaced by people that think they can turn a wrench just as good if not better than some awesome shops that have history, depth and knowledge that only comes with experience and love for these cars. Btw - I'm not angry , I'm just disappointed because this is not what the owners of past were in these cars ....therefore, I don't feel the need to be a cheerleader for these cars anymore. And I'm not narssastic enough to think my view even matters, but felt I at least owned some of you why I feel this way.
I feel ya. I feel your pain bro. Having to associate your coppa Bella winning Rocks Auto masterpieces, with our lowly DIY garbage, and the plebs that we all are. It's a real Greek tragedy. Too bad Rocks Auto couldn't figure out how to fix the oil leak with their "history, depth, and knowledge that only comes with experience and love for these cars". I'll bet when you were a little kid, you got beat up a lot.
Big Red, put down the 20yr scotch and stumble away from the keyboard; I'm not sure how to make sense of your last two diatribes as they're basically incoherent. If I try to understand (and it's difficult), you're hanging your flag out on some elitist bull**** about how the brand has been dlluted by the great unwashed masses buying the "cheap" Ferraris, while you pine for the glory days of you and the truly informed spending untold dollars on NOS hose clamps so you can with a prize at a show? I don't know, it didn't make any sense to me either. Who are you attacking exactly? People who work on their own cars, a.k.a the poors? People bought these cars to do whatever they want to them- it's not yours, don't worry so much about it. I would argue that more people are cheesing up 360s and up than the vintage stuff, and I wouldn't want to be associated with that crowd either- but this is the 3X8 forum, so WTF? I do agree with you that no one should align with a brand- the brand doesn't give a rat's ass about you or anyone else, and nowhere is this more true than with Ferrari. On the subject of 308s and others of the vintage, they are just that, vintage cars with their own appeal, and their values are based more on unquantifiable measures than on performance metrics. I see few people here who are pennywise and pound foolish; many just don't like to get gouged on parts/service that should not cost what they do other than because of a dancing horse. If I can do it, I will. If I can't, I turn to professionals and let them handle it. As far as keeping them original- enough people here ask the pedantic questions about toolkits and valve stem caps to the point that I think we're pretty safe in keeping the Ferrari tradition alive of not changing one single thing in fear of hurting future value to the next owner, something you lament about. If I've missed anything, please feel free to enlighten us. Warren.
Redline - if that's the message you are getting I've failed you, wouldn't be the first time I've communicated that wrong. Has nothing to do with elitist, top dollar, etc .... Your pennywise , Pound foolish analogy sums it up best with what I was trying to get at ! People worried about a service on an engine, when I fact they need an engine....people getting into the cars for the wrong reason because of the brand and buying the cheapest one for the badge.
Thanks for clarifying. I'll have to rebut you on that point though in that in today's market there are no cheap Ferraris unless it's a ratty Mondial 8 The days of the $15K Ferrari are over (for now), and anyone getting in now is probably looking to improve it rather than posture with it. It seems to me it's those with excesses of disposable income that are diluting the "brand" and image of owners with tarted up cars trying to be different. Tastelessness rules the day in that group IMO. Cheers, Warren
Then why not go associate with those "better" owners of "better" cars instead of coming here and slamming the marque and owners around which this forum is based? I cannot begin to imagine why anyone would take the advice of someone who has such disdain for the cars and the people who love them, yet comes to a forum called FerrariChat every day anyway. To the OP, sorry your thread got hijacked. Condition is more important than records, IMO. Especially since the car is not priced like a museum piece. Find someone who truly knows 308s and have them go over it with you, then go with your gut. Best of luck and please let us know what you decide. Might be best to start a new thread though, since this one has been so thoroughly derailed.
That all makes sense. Prices have gone too high. Blame the Dino. Or the 250 GTO. Or whatever. As far as the guy who knows his Japanese or American product should be worth more or the Ferrari should be less than that stuff, f those guys. Thousands of real deal money transactions say otherwise, over a long period of time. Money talks, BS walks. And anyway, everyone has a different favorite flavor of ice cream. No big deal. And as far as people buying these cars for the wrong reasons, that's been going on for a long time. Probably from the start. Enzo was a creator of things that fostered lust and envy in men's hearts. -F
